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INDONESIA - defence and military issues (PART IV-R.P.9]
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Reply 1256# advark
No problem. Actually, Singapore's research in underwater acoustics is quite deep. I first heard of UUVs used by RSN in 1997!! Unfortunately, Singapore remains largely secretive over its military research. Whatever you are seeing now is considered not new technology. Singapore does not and will not show current military research. Secondly, not all research end up in product acquisition by the SAF as it may be much cheaper to buy off the shelf. But the value of the research is that we know better what we are buying. To date, few countries can match the diversity and quality of Singapore's locally produced military equipment. |
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Reply 1260# audreyhepburn
Ill tell you what i see. I see you going in all directions. Plans to do this...plans to do that. A practical person will not bother with such news and wait to see the final product - will it be a world beater or simply something that people has seen, can do, will not do, waste of time and money - better to outsource, buy of-the-shelf, etc.
A lot of the things you are doing have been done and researched decades ago by various other countries. If you look at the top universities in the world today, you will find a lot of similar research and industrial tie-ups. Singapore has its fair share of really ambitious plans by some individuals/organizations - one of the latest being a space-port in Singapore. Will it work? Hey, they are certainly looking into it. Will take some time but you know how serious Singaporeans can be...
Space-port.
So, when I see posts like these, im scratching my chin and smiling.
So, just because Malaysia doesnt seem to have products in such and such field, it does not mean they know nothing about it or cannot do it. Their priorities differ. Malaysia is ahead than you in many areas. |
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Post Last Edit by belacan79 at 6-11-2011 14:54
Reply 1261# belacan79
Here's an example of secretive research unveiled years later. Singapore researched and built optical-tv-guided bomb/missile in the 1980s. Singapore's DSO (Defence Science Organization) only revealed it in 1995 if im not wrong.
DSO engineers had garnered experience from their design, testing and assessment, setting the foundation for future unmanned systems (i.e. UAVs, glide bombs and advanced missiles/rockets). |
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Well what indonesia do by revealing its military development is good for the neighbourhood, so there shouldn't be any worry.
Malaysia and singapore not revealing it's development is not that important to indonesia.
We won't make Indonesia become china of SEA. Indonesia just will be the key role in ASEAN.
Developing its military bigger and stronger compare to any ASEAN country and Australia is natural for indonesia. So how to make the neighbours have a good sleep is important while indonesia military is stronger and stronger. |
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Reply audreyhepburn
Ill tell you what i see. I see you going in all directions. Plans to do thi ...
belacan79 Post at 6-11-2011 14:18 
im realy apreciate it..i got the point " not new technology" seems like indonesia military industry, not a new technology too..but indonesian military scientis make cooperation to with some university here like ITB university, ITS university etc and make some good progress for the future of indonesia military industry. anyway..ok maybe malaysia had alot of modern military weapons, im not agree if you said " malaysia is ahead than you in many areas". but in military industries indonesia is ahead in south east asia.
Space port?
check out in google : Indonesia cooperation with russia and india to build space Port in Biak Island/West Papua, and then LAPAN in 2012 build will build rocket orbiter satelite in sumatra island. anyway..thank for your sharing here..if you from singapore..lets join with us in indonesia military forum http://www.kaskus.us/forumdisplay.php?f=140
you can explain all progress ur military industry..ok. |
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Reply 1264# Flatyre
Etcetera Etcetera, you bore me with such posts - it is only natural for Indonesia to become really powerful. Hey, youve wasted like 70 years? Try again for another 70 plus years with the world also progressing. Remind me again when you are really there. Meanwhile, youve got a whole lot of stuffs to fix, old equipment to ditch, new equipment to buy, evolve from a counter-insurgency force to a proper military; including getting millions of your countrymen above the poverty-line and becoming a first world nation. Otherwise, any such talk will be met by a "huh". Sorry. Really funny. |
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Post Last Edit by belacan79 at 6-11-2011 18:31
Reply 1265# audreyhepburn
That space-port thing is nothing but hot-air now. But you are welcome to compete with us anytime. We always welcome competition. Try competing against Changi Airport and our seaports first before thinking about space-ports. Ive been to your airport. I will not comment about it.
Doesnt the average Malaysian earn 4 times more than you? That is why you folks go there to work. Hence, this shows they are ahead in you in many areas. Malaysia is somewhere between 1st world and 2nd world. You are just progressing from the 3rd world. Youll improve. Yes. But this is where things stand now. But between there and where Malaysia is at will come lots of societal changes and problems. Not easy and will take a lot of time. I certainly disagree that you bunch are ahead of the Malaysians in military industry. Malaysia just doesnt buy internally as much and that is because politics and mismanagement get in the way. They have just concluded deliveriess of IFVs (which are better than Anoa) and new ships. That says a lot. They can do much more if they have more discipline. Anyway; my views. You are entitled to yours of course. I dont want to hijack this thread so peace out. |
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Reply Flatyre
Etcetera Etcetera, you bore me with such posts - it is only natural for Indonesia to become really powerful. Hey, youve wasted like 70 years? Try again for another 70 plus years with the world also progressing. Remind me again when you are really there. Meanwhile, youve got a whole lot of stuffs to fix, old equipment to ditch, new equipment to buy, evolve from a counter-insurgency force to a proper military; including getting millions of your countrymen above the poverty-line and becoming a first world nation. Otherwise, any such talk will be met by a "huh". Sorry. Really funny.
belacan79 Post at 6-11-2011 18:13
Why you so butthurt?
What poverty got to do with our discussion? Enlight me then with your economy knowledge? Last night I checked only indonesia goes to cannes for G-20 meeting. Last time i checked indonesia has the lowest debt to GDP ratio compare to malaysia and singapore just only 26% so much better than 1998 that reach 90%, only 10 years needed to reduce it while the world expect indonesia will be bankrupt. Amazing isn't it? Last time i checked indonesia GDP is a combined GDP of thailand, malaysia and singapore. Last time i checked indonesia is the least in this region will affected with the world economy turmoil coz we just export 30% of GDP and depending a lot on domestic demand. Last time i checked we still abundant of natural resources. Not bad huh? Well, congrat with your GDP percapita. Greece has bigger GDP per capita than us but it is greece that is in trouble now and spain, porto, Italy are coming on the way. Well economy is not just about GDP percapita or poverty then. |
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Post Last Edit by belacan79 at 6-11-2011 20:00
Reply 1268# Flatyre
Of course it does. Are you trying to tell me with your economy in the doldrums, you can become a true military power?
Your GDP is large by virtue of your population. Even ultra poor Mexico is in the G20. It says nothing about the state of the common man. Even China had a large GDP back then before they were forced to adopt free market economics. You can prance around with your GDP all you want. Everyone knows the state of your current development. The requirements of G20 should be stricter. Come on...Mexico ?
Singapore's and Malaysia's debt ratio is largely intentional unlike Greece. We have the CPF and EPF. People have to save a portion of their income with the government and the government use the monies for investment and redevelopment. Hence, those monies are owed by the government. The interest is paid back to account holders and net sum given back after retirement. It is different from Greece which basically loaned monies wholesale from everywhere. |
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Post Last Edit by Flatyre at 6-11-2011 21:44
Sorry doble post |
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Post Last Edit by Flatyre at 6-11-2011 21:33
Of course it does. Are you trying to tell me with your economy in the doldrums, you can become a true military power?
belacan79 Post at 6-11-2011 19:48
What is true military power?
Indonesia is just palnning Minimum Forces only, but Minimum is a relative word.....Maybe tiny for US and maybe giant for others.
Your GDP is large by virtue of your population. Even ultra poor Mexico is in the G20. It says nothing about the state of the common man. Even China had a large GDP back then before they were forced to adopt free market economics. You can prance around with your GDP all you want. Everyone knows the state of your current development. The requirements of G20 should be stricter. Come on...Mexico ?
belacan79 Post at 6-11-2011 19:48
So. your GDP is small because of the small population....so it is simple about population. The bigger population is the bigger GDP will be. G-20 should be a forum of 20 largest populated countries then...... . Failed economics 101.
US economy is bigger than China or India. US population only 340++ M.....
Australia GDP bigger than Indonesia.
Don't look down Mexico....
Singapore's and Malaysia's debt ratio is largely intentional unlike Greece. We have the CPF and EPF. People have to save a portion of their income with the government and the government use the monies for investment and redevelopment. Hence, those monies are owed by the government. The interest is paid back to account holders and net sum given back after retirement. It is different from Greece which basically loaned monies wholesale from everywhere.
belacan79 Post at 6-11-2011 19:48
Oh please......debt is debt.
Once the gov failed to pay then say good bye to investors and economy development. |
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To date, few countries can match the diversity and quality of Singapore's locally produced military equipment.
belacan79 Post at 6-11-2011 14:00
AV8 TERREX originally made by timoney ireland...sinkapork made it under licensed
you are talking too much ahong...your pathetic tiny island will be sinking in the future that's what you should concern about  |
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AV8 TERREX originally made by timoney ireland...sinkapork made it under licensed
you are talking too much ahong...your pathetic tiny island will be sinking in the future that's what you should concern about 
eltoro Post at 6-11-2011 21:28
Well the famous orchard road already start sinking.....better build a big wall than expanding land, what a waste of money if that expanding land is lie under water. |
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Well the famous orchard road already start sinking.....better build a big wall than expanding la ...
Flatyre Post at 6-11-2011 21:55
they already made noah's ark as preparation if their pathetic island really sinking
slow but sure their soil reduced inch by inch without they realize it
sayonara sink-a-pork...hahahahaha |
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Reply 1271# Flatyre
what is true military power?
Indonesia is just palnning Minimum Forces only, but Minimum is a relative word.....Maybe tiny for US and maybe giant for others.
Oh yeah...planning minimum forces only? That's rich. You are not there yet. As a matter of fact, you will not be there unless your economy becomes better. Apart for a few modern equipment, a large porportion is from the 1980s-1990s.
So. your GDP is small because of the small population....so it is simple about population. The bigger population is the bigger GDP will be. G-20 should be a forum of 20 largest populated countries then....... Failed economics 101.
US economy is bigger than China or India. US population only 340++ M.....
Australia GDP bigger than Indonesia.
Don't look down Mexico....
GPD has many components silly you. You are fortunate that you have a large population otherwise you will be no where. Our GDP is actually slightly bigger than malaysia by virtue of our per capita quantum. Australia GDP is bigger than yours because of high per capita quantum. If we have a similar population size as Australia, our GDP will be almost as large as theirs. I dont look down on Mexico. I am saying they belong to the 3rd world like you.
Tell me indon, does your country receive financial aid from other countries?
Oh please......debt is debt.
Once the gov failed to pay then say good bye to investors and economy development
Oh please... CPF and EPF works like pension funds. They're different from simple debt. Singapore's CPF is valued at 300-400 billion i think. I would not worry about a failed government. Your government fails . We put proper persons into parliament and not corrupt and incompetent individuals. |
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Reply 1272# eltoro
We bought over Timoney. Everybody knows that. And what a strategic and good business decision it was as Terrex is miles ahead of your Anoa which looks like a contraption from the soviet era. We have plenty of other home made IFVs as well. |
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Post Last Edit by belacan79 at 7-11-2011 08:26
Reply 1274# eltoro
Silly indon, our occasional floods are baby floods and miniscule and nothing compared to yours. And this was due to the changed climate and a choked central drain. We also have to calibrate and change the size of some drains. It occured once on Orchard Road and no more.
Take a look at your floods. How many dead? How many landslides? How many hundreds of millions lost in damage? Try comparing with another third worlder. Even Malaysia does not experience such horrific losses. Otherwise, you are shooting yourself in the foot indon. Theres a big gap between developed countries and just developing ones. |
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Reply 1275# audreyhepburn
The armour packs are different. But yes, the armour packs should still be from IBD. However, the difference stops there. Singapore's DSTA is involved and upgraded the internal parts as well - new firing control systems, installation of home-grown battle management systems, new suspensions, new power packs, new connectivity systems, etc. So, it is a different beast as compared to the Leo 2 Evolution - which is basically the same Leo 2A4 with new strap-on armour i think. We bought around 180+ Leo2SG thus far according to Sipri.
Germany has strict export controls over the equipment she makes. You might need to wait for some time to get clearance. She allows sales only to countries she wants to sell. In Singapore's case, Germany approached us first. And we thought it was a good buy and it is. |
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here we go again, useless debate
@belacan79: why don't you make a special thread about singapore military?
@audrylia and friends : can you make posts without insulting the ability of other countries?
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Post time 6-11-2011 02:00 PM
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