mamaHazim This user has been deleted
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assalamualaikum & hai utk semua...
nak tanya, korang ada masalah tak bila makan antibiotik...??
mama dulu, kalau makan mesti pening...
anak mama skrg ni plak,tgh kene gatal2.doktor bg antibiotik.tapi, masalah nya anak mama asyik berak je...ada le dlm 6 kali seari.klau lepas makan sarapan ke, lunch ke dinner ke, mesti berak...nampak susut dah badan dia.. cian kat anak mama..lagi 2 ari lg abis antibiotik, doktor suruh dtg klinik balik..utk bagi 1 botol utk seminggu punya makan...(lengkapkan 2 minggu simtom tu ok)...ok ke berak2 gitu???
[ Last edited by blackmore at 12-8-2008 08:10 AM ] |
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Originally posted by mamaHazim at 23-7-2005 00:24:
assalamualaikum & hai utk semua...
nak tanya, korang ada masalah tak bila makan antibiotik...??
mama dulu, kalau makan mesti pening...
anak mama skrg ni plak,tgh kene gatal2.doktor bg an ...  |
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emm.. saya pun nak tanya jgk.. ade certain Dr yg ckp antibiotik x sesuai sgt utk baby.. kalu baby sakit or demam.. bg die makan ubat demam.. elakkan ksk antibiotik.. coz' nak suh badan die develop sendri antobodi.
betul ke?
any suggestion? |
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ikanjarung This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by blackmore at 24-7-2005 00:56:
...mamaHazim...diarrhoea is one of the known side-effects of some antibiotics...especially antibiotics like unasyn...augmentin..cephalexin...erythromycin.....if your child's ...he might switch to another antibiotic or prescribe some anti-diarrhoea medication to help relieve the diarrhoea...
That's a very foolish thing to do,  nf:nf:switching from one antibiotik to another.
The logical and sensible thing to do is to stop all medicines altogether immediately. Ask your dr if the antibiotik was really that necessary.:stp: Usually it will resolve or get better once the atibiotik is stopped.
Giving anti-diarrhoea medicine to a small baby can cause more complications than the diarrhoea itself.:agr:
[ Last edited by ikanjarung on 29-7-2005 at 10:22 PM ] |
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ikanjarung This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by blackmore at 30-7-2005 00:57:
[quote] cik ikanjarung...with due respect...apa yang foolish sangat???...switching from one antibiotic to another is not something that is foolish...kalau sakit anak itu memerlukan rawatan antibiotic...stopping antibiotic treatment (due to the child experiencing bad side effects) altogether will not treat the child's ailment...bukannya aku suruh dia yang mandai2 tukar antibiotic tu sendiri...kan aku cakap...pi bawak jumpa dr balik and discuss ngan dr tentang masalah yang dia hadapi...
Please read carefully before you comment. I said to discuss with your dr to see if the antibiotik was necessary in the first place. If it is, fine, he will prescribe another class of antibitik which hopefully will not cause diarrhoea.
...and apa yang logic sangat stopping all medications?????...sakit berak2 dia mungkin bley resolve setelah stopping the antibiotics...tapi...sakit gatal2 dia macam mana???...biarkan dia stop gatal sendiri ke???...
You are confused by the two issues - cirit birit and gatal2 are two different conditions that needs to be handled differently. Since the culprit might be any of the several medications you have to stop all of them and check with your dr.
...alahai ikanjarung....leaving a child who is having severe diarrhoea untreated lagik dangerous beb...the child can become dehydrated becos of the fluid loss...smecta and lacteol fort are the most common and rather effective meds which pediatricians and needs further treatment....
Here we are talking about diarrhoea caused by an antibiotik which in the majority of cases are not severe. If it is severe then of cos the child has to be treated. Kan saya dah kata bring the child to the dr to discuss further treatment? He/she will also check if the child is dehydrated
BTW whats the point of continuing another antibiotik if the child is having diarrhoea ? It is not going to get absorbed at all.
Exactly, the word here is like to prescribe Sure for an older child 2-3 years these (smecta etc) may help. But if your paediatrician prescribe it for an infant (<12 months) you better stop taking your baby to see him/her.
...apa2 jua ubat yang kita makan...kalau kita ikut apa yang telah ditentukan..insyaallah ubat itu tidak akan memudaratkan kita...unless of cos if u develop allergic reactions...then the logical and sensible solution is to stop that medication totally...
No one medication is 100% safe and everyone knows that. You cannot predict the development of side effects in any individual BUT you can anticipate that it might occur.
The development of side effects from drug will still occur if you follow the instruction on how to take it. They occur due to many other factors - some are dose dependent but the majority are not, it is an idiosyncratic response. Even a tiny amount can trigger a side effect esp the acute reactions.
[ Last edited by ikanjarung on 30-7-2005 at 09:37 PM ] |
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nautilus This user has been deleted
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:setuju:
I totally agree with ikanjarung's explanation and the arguments presented to back up her case. They all have a scientific basis. |
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ikanjarung This user has been deleted
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...prescribing another class of antibiotic<-----exactly what does this sentence mean???....to me...it means switching to another antibiotic...so??...did i misquote u?? ...eh??...but wait a minute...arent u the one who said earlier......
Obviously you are not familiar with the different classes of antibiotics.Just to name a few: cephalosporins (1-4th generation), macrolides, aminopenicillins, carbapenems, quinolones, etc. IF (a big IF) the antibiotic was warranted in the first place then there are other options. FYI macrolides are notorious for causing diarrhoea.
...so???...i ask u again...what is so foolish about switching from one antibiotic to another????.....aku pon maksudkan yang dr tu akan memberi antibiotic lain yang hopefully jugak tidak akan memberi kesan sampingan such as diarrhoea...
.
Again in this situation the antibiotic was said to be for the gatal2. Any sensible person will tell you antibiotics are anti- infectives and not an antihistamine. Sure, there are instances that an itchiness and skin rash can be a result of an infection that also triggers release of histamines resulting in skin rash and itchiness. In the vast majority of cases they are of viral origin. You do not prescribe an antibiotic for viral infections.
...and we are pretty sure that the diarrhoea is due to the antibiotic...so..stopping all medications altogether is not necessarily the best solution...cos in the first place...gatal2 tu dah memang ada sebelom the antibiotics are being prescribed...
Agree that the rash was present before the antibiotic and the good dr gave an antibiotic to treat the gatal2 (in mother's own words). Then came the diarrhoea which resulted from an unneccesary treatment and inappropriate treatment as I explained above. the issue here now is the diarrhoea that mother was worried about.. and how to treat the diarrhoea ...not the gatal2.
....and...arent u contradicting yourself when u said the above???
I do not see myself contradicting what I have said and I stick by it. I said to give or change to another class of antibiotic provided it was waranted in the first place. I have given the reason why antibiotic is not the treatment for the primary illness, which was the gatal2. Two wrongs do not make a right.
...if lets say my child is 6 months old and he is having diarrhoea about 5-6 times per day...what do u think the pediatrician would give me???....seriously...when u said those words u are instilling fear to the public cos the way i interpret it...the pediatricians are doing harm to your child if he prescribed smecta or etc to your less than a year child....when in actual fact smecta can still be given to an infant who is less than 1 year old...dosage given of cos calculated by the child's body weight and age...
I suggest you refer to MIMS 97th edn 2004, page 12 and I quote the indication for smecta: "Treatment of acute and chronic diarrhoea in patient > 6 year" So, am Ii instilling unnecessary fear ? The manufacturer did not recommend it for those below 6 years. Sure, you can go ahead and use it for under 12 months old, but you will be liable for it.
I believe you are or were working in S'pore. I know the paediatricians there are very strict about use of anti-diarrhoea agents in infants and toddlers.
Let me assure you that I do not offer my humble professional advice without having an in depth medical knowledge. OTOH I could have charged this particular mother for my detailed and lengthy professional explanation if she were to consult me for this problem. |
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Originally posted by ikanjarung at 31-7-2005 13:34:
Obviously you are not familiar with the different classes of antibiotics.Just to name a few: cephalosporins (1-4th generation), macrolides, aminopenicillins, carbapenems, quinolones, etc. IF (a big IF) the antibiotic was warranted in the first place then there are other options. FYI macrolides are notorious for causing diarrhoea.
......so..u mean.....if previously he gave me cephalexin then becos of certain side-effects he stopped the cephalexin and gave me...eerr...lets say cefaclor...which is like cephalexin, also of cephalosporins group...but different from cephalexin...so u dont consider this as changing of antibiotics...because its of the same class???...tapi it's two different antibiotics kan altho its of the same family group???...
...and if previously the dr gave me an antibiotic which is under the cephalosporins group..eg..cephalexin...then becos of certain side effects he stopped cephalexin and gave me another antibiotic from the quinolones group eg ciprobay...makna nya dia tak switch antibiotics ler nie... :bgrin:
...the point im trying to make my dear fren is not whether the antibiotic is warranted or not...im not the judge nor jury for that becos im not the one yang assessed the pt in the first place...what im trying to say all along is...what is so very foolish about switching from one antibiotic to another???:cak:
Originally posted by ikanjarung at 31-7-2005 13:34:
Again in this situation the antibiotic was said to be for the gatal2. Any sensible person will tell you antibiotics are anti- infectives and not an antihistamine. Sure, there are instances that an itchiness and skin rash can be a result of an infection that also triggers release of histamines resulting in skin rash and itchiness. In the vast majority of cases they are of viral origin. You do not prescribe an antibiotic for viral infections
...antibiotic and antihistamines are 2 different subjects...yes i agree...majority cases are of viral origin...but...we do not noe what her child presented with...he could be in the minority group who has..perhaps...impetigo...which is very common in children and warranted antibiotics treatment such as cephalexin...erythromycin...and derivatives of penicillins...;)
Originally posted by ikanjarung at 31-7-2005 13:34:
Agree that the rash was present before the antibiotic and the good dr gave an antibiotic to treat the gatal2 (in mother's own words). Then came the diarrhoea which resulted from an unneccesary treatment and inappropriate treatment as I explained above. the issue here now is the diarrhoea that mother was worried about.. and how to treat the diarrhoea ...not the gatal2.
...right...the issue here is that the mother was worried about the diarrhoea...but...how would u noe that the good dr gave inappropriate and unnecessary treatment??...u were not the one who assessed the child's condition...so how could u just blatantly say that the dr had initiated inappropriate and unnecessary treatment??...what if the child indeed really require the antibiotic???..isnt it unfair to accuse your own colleague of the above?? :no:
Originally posted by ikanjarung at 31-7-2005 13:34:
I do not see myself contradicting what I have said and I stick by it. I said to give or change to another class of antibiotic provided it was waranted in the first place. I have given the reason why antibiotic is not the treatment for the primary illness, which was the gatal2. Two wrongs do not make a right.
...again...im really puzzled with your interpretaition...change to another class of antibiotic is not the same meaning as switching to another antibiotic...:stp::bgrin:
Originally posted by ikanjarung at 31-7-2005 13:34:
I suggest you refer to MIMS 97th edn 2004, page 12 and I quote the indication for smecta: "Treatment of acute and chronic diarrhoea in patient > 6 year" So, am Ii instilling unnecessary fear ? The manufacturer did not recommend it for those below 6 years. Sure, you can go ahead and use it for under 12 months old, but you will be liable for it.
I believe you are or were working in S'pore. I know the paediatricians there are very strict about use of anti-diarrhoea agents in infants and toddlers.
Let me assure you that I do not offer my humble professional advice without having an in depth medical knowledge. OTOH I could have charged this particular mother for my detailed and lengthy professional explanation if she were to consult me for this problem.
...so...based on these 2 good books...yes...i still think that u are instilling unnecessary fear to the public...:cak:
...and my dear fren...im still interested to noe what are u going to give my child who is having diarrhoea 5-6 times per day if i ever come to u??...lengthy consultation saja ke??...takde obat ke dr??...:bgrin:
...i never accuse u of giving baseless medical advice...its good to once in a while be able to discuss something that has so many controversies in it...
[ Last edited by blackmore on 31-7-2005 at 07:28 PM ] |
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ikanjarung This user has been deleted
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...and if previously the dr gave me an antibiotic which is under the cephalosporins group..eg..cephalexin...then becos of certain side effects he stopped cephalexin and gave me another antibiotic from the quinolones group eg ciprobay...makna nya dia tak switch antibiotics ler nie...
No where did I made any claim that a change of antibiotic to another (wheter within or outside the same class) is not a switch. What constitute a "switch" was never an issue.
...the point im trying to make my dear fren is not whether the antibiotic is warranted or not...
This is always a weakness when one is trying to offer an advice when the clinical picture is not taken into totality. One event follows another and the events are all linked. You cannot separate them, which is why parents always have the notion that for every symptom they must be amedication for it. Iit is common for patients to leave the clinic with several bottles of medication when they are not necessary.
..perhaps...impetigo...which is very common in children and warranted antibiotics treatment
In the first instance I did say that "Ask your dr if the antibiotik was really that necessary" If so, fine he can continue with another antibiotic like what you suggested.
??...u were not the one who assessed the child's condition...so how could u just blatantly say that the dr had initiated inappropriate and unnecessary treatment??...
True. You cannot assess the condition in virtual consultation. Any well-intended advice can only be based on the limited, often erroneous information, presented. BTW the mother did not mention the child had impetigo and you are assuming that the gatal2 was caused by a bacterial infection.
...again...im really puzzled with your interpretaition...change to another class of antibiotic is not the same meaning as switching to another antibiotic
This was never implied at all anywhere in the posts. Its your own interpretation.
...so...based on these 2 good books
Why are you quoting an old MIMS edition 2003 when there is a 2004 edition ?
I believe we should follow the information provided by the manufacturer. The information in MIMS is a synopsis of the manufacturer's package literaure insert. |
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...aisay dr...senyum2 lah sikit...takkan serious jer...kan elok kita beramas mesra cam nie??...:hug::bgrin:
..ps...btw...u ada klinik sendiri or kerja ngan kerajaan?? |
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drmnh This user has been deleted
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Cool down guys...
Originally posted by blackmore at 24-7-2005 00:56:
...mamaHazim...diarrhoea is one of the known side-effects of some antibiotics...especially antibiotics like unasyn...augmentin..cephalexin...erythromycin.....if your child's ...
In my professional opinion there's nothing wrong with blackmore general statements here. And I must say having interacted with blackmore online for few months I must say that she has sound clinical knowledge and open to critism and arguments. We got to be fair in giving opinions here I suggest. Mind the personal and derogatory comments. I think we can discuss a lot of things in this forum fruitfully without getting on one's nerves.
In medicine there's nothing written on the stone my senior colleagues used to say. Yes there are things that are absolutely contraindicated like thalidomide for pregnant moms but there are many things which are useful which may have several side effects but we still use them for their benefits. The decisions to use medicines are left to the consulted drs.
I have to say that if I were consulted by mamaHazim I would consider all that suggested by blackmore bearing in mind that I would closely follow-up the child.
Dah...dah...cool down. :pray::pray: |
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oh hoooo...
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hey guys ..it 's HOT - PAris Hilton anyway hey ya NAutilus ...where have you been? busy with Captain nemo eh? |
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aiyoo..nurses n doctors dah gaduh..aiyooo..... |
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Originally posted by honeybee1802 at 3-8-2005 13:46:
aiyoo..nurses n doctors dah gaduh..aiyooo.....
...lehhh!!???...sapa plak yang bergaduh nie???:kant::kant::kant:...eerr...nie kan sesi beramas mesra jer...mandai2 plak awak cakap kita gaduh2...tak baik tau...:ketuk::ketuk::ketuk::bgrin: |
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drmnh This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by blackmore at 1-8-2005 00:18:
...aisay dr...senyum2 lah sikit...takkan serious jer...kan elok kita beramas mesra cam nie??...:hug::bgrin:
..ps...btw...u ada klinik sendiri or kerja ngan kerajaan??[ ...
Seems to me that ikanjarung has worked or currently working in a practice overseas...DownUnder perhaps. Ikanjarung = ?The Shark = ?Greg Norman = ?Aussie. Sorry for being nosy but having worked in DownUnder I know for a fact that some of my colleagues there like to speak their mind especially on something that they have a strong opinion on. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion on something but have to see others point of views too. We don't want people call us Dr- Know-It-All do we? Cos I don't think we know all...Only Allah Knows everything...Wallahualam.:lebai::lebai::lebai: |
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Post time 23-7-2005 12:24 AM
变色卡
lol
![[Edisi Tahniah] Selamat Pengantin Baru Fikhry Ibrahim](https://uf.cari.com.my/forumx/mforum/block/84/841c56053d70be4814b8e8b5697437aa.jpg)