EVIL - was it born within us? .. or how?

yellow belmont

ada idea mengatakan kejahatan itu sememangnya telah wujud dlm diri kita sejak lahir lagi .. so kira it just a matter of time la samada develop atau tak benda tu ..

ada pula org ckp kita ni lahir umpama kain putih .. suci sesucinya lar kira .. meaning to say kejahatan tu bkn sedia ada pd kita tp dr pengaruh luar ..

so mcm mana tu? .. komen skit? ..

wei_loon5063

yeap... it is within us..... i`ve been to this curch b4.. the priest said.....
why we always tell children tat do not lie, do not steal, n dont do bad things
aren`t children are innocent? where the heck do they learn to steal? lie?
is it something tat is withing them already? and then the media brush up
the negativity within and unleash it.....

limau_nipis

iyer, evil mmg exist dalam diri..
tapi cara kita handle diri kita yang penting..
sebab tu kita ada external factors yang akan membentuk sahsiah kita, macam ibu bapa, didikan untuk berbudi bahasa, agama, self value (anda tahu di mana diri anda), kawan-kawan, etc...

evil do exist, tapi bila kita campurkan faktor-faktor di atas, kita akan cuba untuk meningkatkan sahsiah diri kita.. dan otak kita akan berfikir impak perbuatan kita terhadap orang lain- hubungan antara Tuhan, alam dan manusia...

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by limau_nipis at 23-3-2007 11:33 AM
iyer, evil mmg exist dalam diri..
tapi cara kita handle diri kita yang penting..
sebab tu kita ada external factors yang akan membentuk sahsiah kita, macam ibu bapa, didikan untuk berbudi baha ...

betul..... buddist pun cakap.. evil ada dalam.... dan macam mane kita control dia determine berapa mulia
sasiah dan akhlak kite....
semua orang ada nafsu... takkan nafsu naik nak kong kek sokmo.... kenelah control......
popmpuan pun same... nafsu shopping die orang naik, gi la shopping sampai duit habis.....

yellow belmont

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 23-3-2007 04:08 AM
yeap... it is within us..... i`ve been to this curch b4.. the priest said.....
why we always tell children tat do not lie, do not steal, n dont do bad things
aren`t children are innocent? where ...

the priest said .. so i wud take this as the point of view of Christianity? .. may i?

perhaps we just dont want them to grow up n become like a punk that we know from our neighbourhood .. so it just some kind of prevention measure ..

or perhaps they r just too innocent that they dont even know what they r doing is evil .. meaning its like its not really evil as they just dont realize what is it actually they r doing ..

yellow belmont

Originally posted by limau_nipis at 23-3-2007 11:33 AM
iyer, evil mmg exist dalam diri..
tapi cara kita handle diri kita yang penting..
sebab tu kita ada external factors yang akan membentuk sahsiah kita, macam ibu bapa, didikan untuk berbudi baha ...

as u said .. external factors akan membentuk sahsiah kita etc ..

how can we be sure evil itu exist dlm diri .. mengapa evil itu sendiri bukan dr external factors baru merasuk ke dlm diri? ..

yellow belmont

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 23-3-2007 03:44 PM



betul..... buddist pun cakap.. evil ada dalam.... dan macam mane kita control dia determine berapa mulia
sasiah dan akhlak kite....
semua orang ada nafsu... takkan nafsu naik nak kong  ...

ic .. so Buddhist pun ckp evil ada dlm ..

nafsu nak congkak tu mmg lar control sbb kena mengena dgn akhlak ethics etc (i never really remember the definition of all this term)

tp nafsu shoping tu lain kes .. dia control sbb nak ikut logik ikut kemampuan .. takde kena mengena evil ..

even tho nafsu shoping can lead to greed .. but normally its a matter of maths n financial thing ..

dutchy

i think be it good or evil, it is always present in us, it is just how we handle ourself, do we let the evil overule the good in us?

and external factor can't be blame as we're all born with a healthy brain i pressume, and whatever it is it depends on us to tame the evil in us

some ppl says our surrounding plays a pivotal role in shaping what and who we are, but again there are cases where people commit murder or things like that and they do come from a very goodbackground, so how do we decipher that? so I do believe in being at the right place at the right time, and in destiny, I guess

yellow belmont

Originally posted by dutchy at 24-3-2007 02:15 AM
i think be it good or evil, it is always present in us, it is just how we handle ourself, do we let the evil overule the good in us?

and external factor can't be blame as we're all born with  ...

yes i assume we all were born with a healthy brain .. except for some special case ..

yup .. sometime people with a good background can still commit evil things ..

actually i dun really have any idea how to memanjangkan lagi this topic .. or how to respond ..

for the rest .. feel free to put ur opinion .. i will give my respond if i have something to say ..

dutchy

Originally posted by yellow belmont at 24-3-2007 02:39 AM


yes i assume we all were born with a healthy brain .. except for some special case ..

yup .. sometime people with a good background can still commit evil things ..

actually i dun re ...

its okee, its a good topic though, i think more can be said in these case, coz as we all know
evil comes in various shapes and sizes, it just what makes people do evil things?

like murder, what drive people to murder? crime of passion?madness? sickness in the head as in serial killers?

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by yellow belmont at 24-3-2007 01:42 AM


ic .. so Buddhist pun ckp evil ada dlm ..

nafsu nak congkak tu mmg lar control sbb kena mengena dgn akhlak ethics etc (i never really remember the definition of all this term)

tp naf ...

yeap.... hehe...... tapi evil ape yang kamu cakap?? tamak? ingin bunuh? rogol? atau cemburu? tipu? curi?
i also feel tat the west uses media extensively to hypnotize our mind....
i think the government je yang jahat,....
now i`m studying in UK and guess wat? the career recrutiment ada satu counter ialah recruit engineer untuk bina
senjata.. pastu ada banyak mat saleh baring kat lantai tak mau orang gi kaunter sana untuk register....
jadi, bukan la semua jahat.. kerajaan je..... corrupted....
hahaaa..........  

i do not ask you to see in the christian way....

about buddist, buddist is not a religion like christian and islam....
buddist is more to a phylosophy to better way of life... so, the phylosophy in buddist easily accepted by other religion but
not others....
the phylosophy has nothing to do with god... jz tat to do more good n less evil thing.....

ajinomotonosuga

it is not evil that ever existed but evil DOINGS that been done by human being

sama macam nuclear power..is it an evil thing?

depending how u look at it lah kan?

to the smallest thing sampai ke peringkat tuhan..ada manusia kata tuhan tu evil sebab dalam  hidup ada evil so i think these ppl are still do not comprehend fully about all matters

evil doesnt exist so evil does not born within us.

look around u and look at those existence..are they evils or are some of them evils?

evil kalo diterbalikkan perkataan evil = live  hihihi

what are existed  are living and non living things.

evil ni di gunakan oleh 'orang orang lama' sebagai alat untuk mengawasi masarakat or maybe family. zaman ini kita ada alat lebih realistik , boleh di pegang, di modify mengikut kehendak dan tuntutan keadaan.

istilah evil terpakai sebab ada istilah good deeds. istilah mati terpakai sebab ada istilah hidup. istilah sakit terpakai sebab ada istilah sihat, kecik besor pendek panjang.. ini semua cuma PENILAIAN dari minda saja, the way brain operates, i.e. brain needs to REGISTER such as such so next time bila u encounter such thing brain TAHU dan accordingly ur body will be instructed to respond as what u have experienced (learning)

sapa penah nampak baby 'mutant', baby yang mangsa napalm, agent orange or any radioactive war weapons? kalo kamu tenguk mereka ntah ntah kamu sangka mereka itu evil babies sebab rupa yang sangat menakutkan. Tapi seme itu sebab GENETIC DISORDER disebabkan disorientation of genes by radioactive effects.

sapa penah baca the story of 'the elephant man'? cite sedih bukan? but ramai tentu akan sangka ini cite evil.

so no such thing evil, but evil doings, evil action, evil deeds evil intention, these are possible. the same like violence lah. Some ppl or kids watching harimau makan anak kambing dengan rakus , eeei that is horrific, so full of violence...so what??? u nak harimau makan kek kismis ka? hihihihi  

Violence, evil doings, bad intention, hatred, fatal attraction etc seme ni under negative spectrum of life. The 'other' side of us.

when we said inhumane, we meant not human, it is not a human thing to eat another human being in order to survive. Being cannibals are not humane. Birds dont eat another birds, lembu tak makan lembu lain, singa tak makan singa lain untuk terus hidup so kenapa manusia nak makan manusia lain untuk hidup?

2 elements arise in understanding this matter. 2 most important elements namely, 'short cut' and 'desire'. Human is endowed with brain to check on these 2 elements and most interestingly, these 2 elements can check on the brain to, the slave can become master too.

Kalo sapa rajin mengenai brain and its properties, ada satu tajuk mengenai 'short cut' ini. Very interesting. Mostly criminals di USA di tanya bab ini, mereka kekadang tak tau kenapa mereka committed the crime, seolah mereka 'snapped' especially bila PANIC. So logically human tends to short cut any of the actions need to fulfill his or her desire. So tak hairan kita dapat banyak penemuan baru, seme kemudahan yang 'jimatkan' masa kan?

So maybe zaman dulu, EVIL ini short cut manusia untuk mendidik manusia lain agar selalu 'ada tuhan' agaknya. Bila ada tuhan bersama mereka baru mereka berlaku baik dan keadaan baru boleh damai dan sejahtera kan?

kalo pun ada 'evil' , sebenarnya itu maybe 'tenaga' selain mannusia, boleh jadi keturunan or makhluk lain macam djinn. Tiada kejadian or ciptaan yang disebut 'evil' dalam quran untuk umat islam. Kalau djinn boleh buat kerosakan bermakna manusia pun boleh, so manusia dan djinn ADA yang suka buat EVIL DOINGS, keje2 yang di larangNYA, yang menyukakan ketua puak yang ingkar(kufur/kafir/kafara) yang dah bersumpah akan sesatkan keturunan Adam a.s.

tapi depa bukan EVILs. ini LABEL kita bubuh saja, macam ada satu kenderaan, dia roda ada 4, dia ada steering so nak label apa? kerea 4roda or  4wheel drive? kereta penumpang? kereta api? kereta perisai? suka hati lah nak bubuh apa label, tenguk keadaan, kegunaan dan macam2 lagi kan?

u call evil i call momok..u call it evil minded ppl i call it momok mentaliti ppl...sama saja hihihi.

dutchy

hmmmm, interesting perspectief on the word "evil", like Dut said the topic is good enough for further discussion, to help us unravel, just what is these 'evil' things, how do
some people with a conscience and brain can succumb to it

dutchy

nnt nak do some research abt serial killers, pernah terbaca somewherem kat readers digest, if am not wrong, that most serial killers actually, ada penyakit something to do with their brain mulfunction....

serial killers nie lain skit dari org yg membunuh coz ader sebab2 nyer

ajinomotonosuga

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 24-3-2007 01:39 PM



yeap.... hehe...... tapi evil ape yang kamu cakap?? tamak? ingin bunuh? rogol? atau cemburu? tipu? curi?
i also feel tat the west uses media extensively to hypnotize our mind....
i thi ...

kalau kamu kata christian dan islam itu religion bermakna buddhism or hinduism pun religion jugak lah

kalo kamu kata buddhism bukan religion bermakna christian dan islam pun bukan religion

this is a FAIR-GO to anyone , any human being yang practice apa pun as 'belief' depa

otherwise if u sticked to ur previous said view then, u showed and tell me lah......

what is ur standard proof in saying that buddhism is not a religion compared to i.e. christianism or islam?

just because buddhist cannot name 'their god' or they dont have so called 'GOD' names doesnt mean they are different.

i have no feet but u have 2 feets, does that make u superior than me? am i not human being too as u?
i dont go to school, u went to Harvard business school, does that mean u are knowledgeable than me? what about the school of life?

Buddhism is a religion to buddhists  as what is islam to muslems and as what is Jesuit to Christian ppl. On this basis thus we have respect towards each other rather scolding anyone else , u dont have religion laaaa...hinduism is not religion laaaa..this is unhealthy u know.

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by ajinomotonosuga at 24-3-2007 02:10 PM



kalau kamu kata christian dan islam itu religion bermakna buddhism or hinduism pun religion jugak lah

kalo kamu kata buddhism bukan religion bermakna christian dan islam pun bukan reli ...

well..... keep your mind clear first b4 i start....
this is Ideas, Thinking, Brain, Epistemology channel..... we will talk with matured mind n not insulting each other like wat
happen in faith n religion channel... ok??
first, i am a buddist.... and buddism is different from islam and christian.... in which way??

islam-                                                         buddism
believe in phrophet                                     do not believe in phrophet
one god                                                     do not believe in one god as ULTIMATE GOD....
adam and eve                                            no adam and eve
heaven and hell                                          no heaven no hell......... only reincarnation
al-quran FROM GOD                                   mantra written by BUDDHA(whom used to be human about way of life, NOT
                                                                  about GOD)
i do not  know wat religion are u.......
i attended this moral class in INTI and the lecturer say buddism is a phylosophy....
let me give you an example.....
in buddism, we do not worhip buddha as the ULTIMATE GOD like in islam....
we worship buddha as in the sense tat we admire him to achieve enlightenment....
check the buddist bible..... there is nothing about god as the ultimate god....
the buddist "book" is not called bible.. but mantra......
it teaches us to be better human in our life.... some non buddist also can agree with the phylosophy as it has nothing to do
with god.... it is toward way of live...... more towards cause of effect.....
e.g.
we must face fate because we are human;
when you let go of your hatret, you are free from trouble
the best wealth is health
those who think they own money are owned by money.....

do you see? unlike in al quran where its about GOD... buddist mantra is about way of life... to free from suffering
as buddha say we, human come to this world to suffer.....
IF YOU CHECK ANY BUDDHA REFERENCE, BUDDISM DO NOT CALL BUDDHA AS GOD..... BUT BUDDHA....

"Buddhism is a religion to buddhists  as what is islam to muslems and as what is Jesuit to Christian ppl. On this basis thus we have respect towards each other rather scolding anyone else , u dont have religion laaaa...hinduism is not religion laaaa..this is unhealthy u know."

bear in mind this...... again.... we buddist are not like muslims where you have islam class in school, go to masjid 5 times a day and
listen to the haji talk about islam.....
some chinese who always say i am a buddist here and there do not try to understand buddism as mumslim try to understnad islam.
do you get wat i mean?
i mix with christian and muslim more than other buddist i can say as i do not seperate myself by differentiating religion and i listen
to my christian and muslim fren tell me about their religion..... tat is the difference i see..... many people do not wan to understand
other religion and wan other to accept their religion view......
no offense
cheers.....

yellow belmont

Originally posted by dutchy at 24-3-2007 02:49 AM

its okee, its a good topic though, i think more can be said in these case, coz as we all know
evil comes in various shapes and sizes, it just what makes people do evil things?

like murder ...

what makes ppl do evil things? .. to be genereal perhaps they have no fear ..

like murder .. it may start when the person feels violated in a very very terrible way.. it leads to anger .. and when the anger grows deeply into the heart .. the person wanna get revenge .. this strong feeling then override the fear .. which free the person to commit murder ..

yellow belmont

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 24-3-2007 01:39 PM



yeap.... hehe...... tapi evil ape yang kamu cakap?? tamak? ingin bunuh? rogol? atau cemburu? tipu? curi?
i also feel tat the west uses media extensively to hypnotize our mind....
i thi ...

saya ckp pasal evil in general .. tak kira la as long as it suit the word evil ..

oh awak study kat UK ek .. yes i do not believe everyone kat sana jahat .. kalau tak .. takdelah yg buat tunjuk perasaan anti government diorg sendiri ..

yes .. i didnt mean that u ask me to see in the Christian way .. cuma nak make sure itu dr sudut pandangan Kristian ke ..

ive heard b4 that Buddhist is not actually a religion .. i think it was a friend of mine that explain it to me ..

p/s: its getting late .. carry on tmorow ..

[ Last edited by  yellow belmont at 25-3-2007 03:45 AM ]

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by yellow belmont at 25-3-2007 03:43 AM


saya ckp pasal evil in general .. tak kira la as long as it suit the word evil ..

oh awak study kat UK ek .. yes i do not believe everyone kat sana jahat .. kalau tak .. takdelah yg buat  ...

tau tak?? saya ada satu kawan dari america... dia letak gambar bush kat tandas... guna untuk tengok masa berak.......   
saya pun caye leader je jahat.... dan jadikan rakyatnye pun kelihatan jahat.........

buddism is more to phylosophy to better way of life.... it rarely involves god in its teaching.......

yellow belmont

Originally posted by ajinomotonosuga at 24-3-2007 01:58 PM
it is not evil that ever existed but evil DOINGS that been done by human being

sama macam nuclear power..is it an evil thing?

depending how u look at it lah kan?

to the smallest thing ...

kita tikam org dgn pisau .. itu evil .. pisau itu sendiri not evil .. so nuclear power is not an evil thing .. evil thing actually is evil doing .. so benda2 tak idup mcm tu cannot be evil ..

short cut n desire .. i guess we do live our life by the rules of these 2 elements .. :ah: :ah:

hermm .. so actually there is no evil .. only evil doings ..

even kalu ada evil pun .. its another form of energy or life ..

interesting .. :hmm: :hmm: