An interesting analogy on freedom or kebebasan

miss_sherlock

I read this idea somewhere. i rasa from buku a brave new world.

Basically dalam buku tu, there is a new language being compiled and dalam language ni there is no such word as freedom atau apa2 saja yg sewaktu dgnnya. So generasi akan datang takkan tahu what is freedom and etc
sebab masa tu dalam buku tu the society was controlled and governed strictly by somebody.

OK so sekrang Cuba bayangkan.....lets say kalau sekarang kita erase atau delete the words freedom, sampaikan idea itu tak pernah wujud dalam dunia ini. manusia semua tak pernah dengar atau tak pernah tahu akan definasi2 tersebut. Ia tak pernah masuk dalam kamus dan tak pernah pun wujud dalam education manusia ataupun history kita
Dan pada masa yang sama kita hidup dengan banyak peraturan dan tiada choice. Dunia yg kita kenal penuh dengan peraturan dan tiada kebebasan
That is our world.. imagine that ..

My question is.. Adakah ia akan luput  dari pemahaman , hidup kita?
Will it stop existing? Will there still be freedom?  
Atau freedom is inane? something instinctive & natural within us?

[ Last edited by miss_sherlock at 28-10-2005 06:13 AM ]

seribulan

if freedom is deleted...there's always the word LIBERTY...

seribulan

Originally posted by miss_sherlock at 28-10-2005 06:10 AM
freedom is inane? something instinctive & natural within us?

If we think about it...animals want to be free too...not just us human...

miss_sherlock

hahahah alamak terkantoi pulak.. the words liberty.. :lol

sorry i meant words freedom dan yg berkaitan dgnnya.

well said..about animals... nice !
But i could also argue that there are a lot of animals that can be domesticated, never mind the wild lifes. Once tamed, there are no reasons as they are content to be where they are with the rules that are bound.

So, are we wild animals.. or ones waiting to be domesticated?

Is freedom, liberty a definition by society, a fluffy reality that is just waiting to be manipulated by the tamer? Can we be tamed or not?

seribulan

Originally posted by miss_sherlock at 29-10-2005 05:56 PM
But i could also argue that there are a lot of animals that can be domesticated, never mind the wild lifes. Once tamed, there are no reasons as they are content to be where they are with the rules that are bound.

:cak:here is the answer actually...if we considered ourselves to be species of animal too;)

Greenbottle3

In the book 'emperors of the peacock throne' by abraham eraly...about the history of the mughal rulers of india...in the chapter about Akbar the great... Akbar as we know was a very great and inquisitive sultan...he even founded /or reformed islam to combine with hinduism and called it 'din ilahi'....did not last after his death..fortunately...

but one of the things he wanted to know is... is language innate?... will human form it's own language if they are isolated and removed from any known languages and speeches??...what he did was to buy newborns (they can do that in the old days!) and instructed the servants not to utter a word or any speech within hearing distance of these babies... they were brought up for several years this way... and the result was that these babies as they grew older could not utter a single word...but only capable of uttering nonsensical bables....

yes the experiment was not terribly sophisticated and didn't prove anything much...

i suppose same thing with 'freedom' or any other ethical or moral issues....cannibalism was once accepted... our malaysian stupid style of democracy (where only one side is given the freedom of expression) is considered freedom enough by most people...

it all boils down to human progression... as a community matures it tends to devalop and refine the ethical issues more...so where does malaysia stand?.... on a scale of 1 to 10 i rate malaysia as about 4...may be five...i believe malaysians are basically still  at a lower stage of only thinking about 'food & shelter '...

mbhcsf

dear, even the air we breathe has its own boundaries- the  atmospheric layer - so do we really have what we called it the ultimate freedom? NO- it's all within boundaries and for good reason..yer dak?

miss_sherlock

well agreed that there are always boundaries.. nothing is infite.
but isnt the boundaries like air  necessities to life..sustainance to exist?
its a fact of life in order to exist which is an entirely different context

what i meant was that whether kita memang ada instinctive gut untuk
mencari kebebasan walau dalam apa jua keadaan and especially
kalau idea tu tak pernah wujud dalam kamus. will it still exist within us?

example.. kalau the concept of marriage tak pernah wujud dalam sejarah manusia,
will we still feel the urge to marry and settle down?
contohnyalah... i kasi

cos i feel that banyak benda is defined by society and the world itself.
perhaps nothing exist for real

miss_sherlock

Originally posted by Greenbottle3 at 30-10-2005 10:55 PM
In the book 'emperors of the peacock throne' by abraham eraly...about the history of the mughal rulers of india...in the chapter about Akbar the great... Akbar as we know was a very great and inqui ...

eww.. what a horrible experiment .. reminds me of binding infants feet in China
to get ballerina like feet..

interesting though.. so language could be a definition by society?
but wouldnt we still have the instinctive nature to want to communicate?

mbhcsf

what is your comments on freedom of ideas?
like Marx and Friedrich Engels - well yes -their works and writings were  and still is at present are evidences that yes human human could reach that level - the freedom the ultimare freedom - ni in terms of ideas - but-
then next question that we shoud ask ourselves is to what end ?  what is the purpose of that idea? then to naswer that question  i but to connect myself to the question of why and what is purpose of my existence on this planet- back to the  very basic answewr- to serve my Ilah - Allah SWT and  in order to serve Him  i might as well have to comply the rules...

all the things created by our MAster Creator have been defines and  dalam surah i tatau apa nama surah tu alah yg solat witir tu kita baca semua dijadikan ikur perkadaran defined measure. So, it' s all complying with the Sunatullah - and even kan kalau tak der concept perkahwinan well makhluknya dah dijadikan fitrah untuk berpasangan ,kan/ so regardless ada ker tak konsep marriage 9 like in kingdom animalia) well voila- you could even se that right so...it has been defined ..and actually ade limit..
so you could probably asked - adakah saya diberi KEBEBASAN UNTUK MEMILIH BERAPA LAMA SAYA PATUT HIDUP?
hmm.. come to think about it , kan  wow imagine  HE regulates the every cyccle of our celluar metabolism/ life cycle/ cell divison etc..in every single tissue/ human being and otner creations- you you imagine that - how SUPREME HE IS..my oh my Subhanall hIl Azim

mbhcsf

Originally posted by miss_sherlock at 4-11-2005 02:20 PM
well agreed that there are always boundaries.. nothing is infite.
but isnt the boundaries like air  necessities to life..sustainance to exist?
its a fact of life in order to exist which is an ent ...

yui have apoint there- banyak benda yg defined by the society - well if not so then they would not be  any term such as  "sociocultural model / factor' well yeah- but then we ned  to  look at the value system - sistem nilai  yg akan defined which ones is " culturallY' defined by the culture in that particular society or our way of life defined by God really. that's all..

redsinner

talking about freedom...i bebetul teringat satu bende..

remember 'TRUMAN SHOW'? jim carrey believed that there's always limitless world and beyond the 'world' that he's living at the moment.
he really didnt realize that all his 'life' was a fake.

its really human intuition to search for freedom and liberty thus we cant force to suppress the limitness of the word itself let alone the world. mcm kelakar la kalo ada new civilization without those words...

the very same word we fight for masa kena jajah dulu...

nazadiyah

we still have our dignity....

mbhcsf

Originally posted by redsinner at 7-11-2005 01:37 AM
talking about freedom...i bebetul teringat satu bende..

remember 'TRUMAN SHOW'? jim carrey believed that there's always limitless world and beyond the 'world' that he's living at the moment.
h ...

very touching ones when he  tried to get out  from that "bublesPhere" when his boat had reached the edge of the "land"- kan he banged the wall crying and his godfather  watched him - and iam quite amazed how difficult it is  to managed to orchestrate teh life for JUST ONE PERSON , kan?  then i was thinking HOW GREAT IS OUR SUPREME CREATOR - Subhanallah Hil azim

ajinomotonosuga

freedom never existed tapi kalok freewill aaa tu ada laa,  pendapatan aku ler hihihi