Need explanations regarding some of Bible verses

mawarputeh · Post time 14-6-2009 11:06 PM

Muhammad said: "In your way to Jannah... you will be tested with many adversities and in your way to hell... you will be tested with many things that you love to do..". Meaning?. In the adversities that given to us... actually there are blesses.

In the eyes of you... Bible is such a corrupted book... full of contradictions... but who knows the wisdom available there that may lead you to Jannah?. You all are here just to find false (based on what you and Deedat believe) of the Book but what about the good parts it has??.  Further... if God purposely made wrong statements... who would question Him?. He must have reasons for that...

They are many unseen things that make us question Him. Especially about fate... this thing is unquestionable... and unexplainable... because only God knows why... even though you might say that God is cruel for being unfair... as one people may ends his life peacefully and the other one may ends miserably... or one people enjoys the life with bundles of wealth and children... and one people not even has a chance to enjoy the life... but what is the secret of all that... think logically you might thing that God is cruel.. unfair...and etc.. or even if He is really cruel or unfair... are we allowed to question Him?.

So.. God creating contradictions to show that he is imperfect?. Contradictions are signs of stupidity of God?. Why don't you think the other way around..?.

Contradictions are signs that  He is powerful as He is able to deceive and guide his servants?... This is possible also... If God is only able to guide people... then why are there unbelievers?. Why are there different types of faiths?.

[ Last edited by  mawarputeh at 14-6-2009 23:08 ]

mawarputeh · Post time 14-6-2009 11:10 PM

No... I am not feeling interfered... I am here to correct what I think is wrong.

thessailly · Post time 14-6-2009 11:57 PM

b i b l e = b u l l s h i t

why follow the rotten book when there's a clearer, more comprehensive version of holy book?
God Himself GUARANTEED the authenticity of this book till the end of times.

did God do the same for Bible ?
the answer is NO.
-as simple as that..

*edit utk mengelakkan pemotongan kredit. hinaan secara tak langsung takpe kan?

[ Last edited by thessailly at 15-6-2009 00:34 ]

thessailly · Post time 14-6-2009 11:58 PM

mawar puteh..correct this. tell me i'm wrong.

gunblade712 · Post time 15-6-2009 12:09 AM

you are going deeper and deeper, mawarputeh.

Like I say, I believe that the Bible that you are carrying aren't 100% the Word of God, but who knows maybe there's a speck of Truth in it. I, for one, believed that there must be some Truth in the Bible even though that it has been tampered by human hands.

God can never made a wrong statement, mawarputeh. There are certain people who say it out loud that "GOD CAN DO EVERYTHING!" without actually realizing that they have misunderstood the statement.

Tell me mawarputeh, can God throw you and me out of His Kingdom?

He can kill us, He can obliterate us, He can tormented our soul, He can crush our soul to oblivion...

...but can He throw you and me out of His Kingdom, away from His Sovereign and Governance?

This is a question which no person (who believed that God can do EVERYTHING in a literal sense) can answer.

Second of all, why is there difference faith?

My goodness, it is the people who choose to divert from the path. Isn't it true that you've read some part of the Quran, mawarputeh? Isn't it true that we've explained to you in full explanations and proof regarding both of our religion and compared it with truthfulness here?

it is the people who turned away from their Covenant with Allah. Allah increases their sickness due to their own ignorant and arrogance nature.

Yang baik dari Allah, yang buruk dari kelemahan manusia sendiri, right?

mawarputeh · Post time 15-6-2009 12:34 PM

Did your prophet asked you to insult the book of others?. I can see how humiliated Muhammad would feel if he sees your post.

mawarputeh · Post time 15-6-2009 12:49 PM

Yes He can. Why can't He?. There are many times in the Quran which Allah said that JIKA ALLAH MAHU... JIKA ALLAH MAHU... see the word jika... it doesn't meant he can't do that... it is just that... he doesn't want to do that.

The difference of faith... GB... it is not the human him or herself make the choice... but it was fated by God... either a person is guided or left without it. To make His plan successful... God created reasons of that.... As example... why people are throw into hell?... because of the wrongdoings... Why wrongdoings?. Because it was fated that his / her heart to do that...

Muslims always tell me that we may change the fate if we work hard... Is it true... our effort itself is part of the fate... and also the result are already created by God... if God fated that you start nicely... but you end it badly... now tell me.. is there anyway you can do to change that?. Start up nicely... in the middle of the story is where God accomplishes His plan by creating reasons for the final result.

Wrong... the good and bad come from Allah...

thessailly · Post time 15-6-2009 01:35 PM

Originally posted by mawarputeh at 15-6-2009 12:34
Did your prophet asked you to insult the book of others?. I can see how humiliated Muhammad would feel if he sees your post.

Prophet Muhammad didn't teach that. no. it is not insult if the what is stated is factual. in fact, it is a clear, obvious fact.

mawarputeh · Post time 15-6-2009 02:07 PM

The book is not a shit... what would you feel if I take your book and put it into the toilet bowl?.

thessailly · Post time 15-6-2009 02:30 PM

aiyoo..mawarputeh.."bullshit" is not actual shit..it more to a load of crap.. ermm.. no..its more like its unuseful..no good..see how hard it is to come out with a name..so i just take the easiest, commonly used name, i.e; bullshit.

it's true la..mawarputeh..can you please inform us any facts from bible that is logically corret, or history proven, or scientifically proven, or socially right...

i remember one commandments from bible..love thy enemy...(i believe in islam it's "love your neighbour")
how can you love your enemy? see..this is a simple reason why i bravely say bible is quite a load of crap.

you can just ignore this just like some of your friends if you want to.

gunblade712 · Post time 15-6-2009 07:41 PM

mawarputeh, I see your definition and view of Godhood.

mawarputeh, how can God made a mistake or an error?

An error means "the state of being wrong in conduct or judgement".

If God CAN make a mistake, then what's the difference between the Creator and the creation?

If GOD can make mistakes in His Words, that means you would have to agree that God can make mistakes in His Judgment.

What makes Him a "God" worthy of worship, then? It's a sign of insecurity. You expect us to believe that we are doing what God tells us to do then suddenly God proclaimed that "I have made a mistake!" ? I don't think people would feel secure giving your eternal fate of either damnation of bliss to such situation, mawarputeh...

Allah is so Great that NOTHING escapes His Governance. Allah is so Great that EVERYTHING from what we see and we don't see belongs to Him and is under His Dominion.

Not one grain of sand moved in the depth of the ocean without being under the knowledge of Allah, and not one leaf falls in the depth of the forest without being under the knowledge of Allah.

With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but He. He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear (to those who can read).

(Glorious Qur'an;6:59)

and regarding that why people go to Hell? No, mawarputeh, they were not fated to be in Hell. If you think about it, actually we are ALL destined to go to Paradise. It's like we are going home to our hometown, because you and I believe that our forefather Adam a.s. were created in the Heaven, am I right?

Why people go to Hell then? It's because they CHOOSE to go to Hell.

In our life, mawarputeh, we were given CHOICES, NOT FREE WILL. When you open your eyes in the morning, you have 2 choices, either go back to bed or get up from the bed, right?

If we DO have "Free Will" , then I can just "Will" for a Playstation 3 and WHAAAMMM, it'll fall right on top of my lap, along with 20 top most games...

and in life, Allah gave you choices, either you wanna live according to His ways, or not. Either you wanna obey Him, or not.

Either you wanna follow the Final Testament, or not.

It's like this. Suppose that you asked me how to get to KL from JB. I tell you to go to Jalan Skudai, head straight, and take the exit #220 where the signboard will say "Kuala Lumpur". Now you asked me "what if I get lost, GB?" I'll tell you "not to worry dear, there's signboard held up if you're lost, and don't take other exits, it will lead you to somewhere else".

You follow my instruction but later you decided that you knew the road better than I do and you took exit #219 and end up in Pontian.

Who's fault is it that you're lost? Me, or yourself?

In that scenario, it's your fault that you got lost and end up in Pontian. I've given you the right direction, plus I've given you the signboards, yet you decided for yourself that you knew it better than I do, and took your own measures and judgment.

Similarly, that's how our life goes by. The path is straight ahead. The orders and instructions were given. The signs are there. It's your choice whether you wanna follow it, or deviate from it.

Our work here is to just convey the message. We've done our part.

We hope and prayed for Allah to guide you into Islam, InsyaAllah.

Allah knows best.

[ Last edited by gunblade712 at 15-6-2009 19:49 ]

mawarputeh · Post time 16-6-2009 03:12 PM

Ayoh... I will read through your post later.. Now is working hour... just slip through for a moment to release the tension.

gunblade712 · Post time 16-6-2009 04:05 PM

yeah, no pressure mawarputeh.. to release the tension?

i hope everything is well in your office, mawarputeh...

airfilterkotor · Post time 16-6-2009 04:38 PM

Originally posted by mawarputeh at 14-6-2009 21:31
In Islam... when you love Muhammad... at the same time you love Allah... so that is how the thing works. So... when I refer to Jesus... I am also referring to the Father as they are in one form.. but for Islam... Muhammad and Allah is not in a form.. that is the difference

Opss....tak perasan ada reply post.

Sedikit pembetulan pada pemahaman kamu di atas.
Di dalam Islam, Allah itu di tempat tertinggi dari segalanya.
Nabi Muhammad hanya seorang rasul yg diutus oleh Allah. Beliau hanya seorang manusia yg mulia.

Cuba kamu lihat, muslim akan mendahulukan(menyebut) nama Allah daripada rasulnya.
Contoh:
-Allah maha besar.
-Bersyukur kepada Allah.
-Segala puji-pujian bagi Allah.
-Dan lain-lain sebutan atau bacaan.

We did not associate Allah with prophet Muhammad or vice versa.
Allah come first.
He is the Creator.
He is The Father.

Unlike trinitarians or twoness, even though The Father,Son and HolyGhost is 3 but 1 God, and the highest hierarchy is The Father...yet they preferred the Son rather than The Father.

Even the Son pray to his Father for him and his followers daily bread..!
Even the Son begging for his Father's mercy..!
Does that look the Son bigger than The Father..?

Ohh...Jesus is their saviour. OK.

Truth.8 · Post time 17-6-2009 04:21 PM

Originally posted by mawarputeh at 10-6-2009 08:34
This is not a good way of debating as you bashed or insulted the one who has opposite opinions of you. Personal attack?... come on dear... don't be childish

Gb always bashed calling forummer lebih buruk dari binatang and etc......Moderator do not take any action on this issue.

look at all his thread, gb other forummer from Sep, lanukota and etc

why moderator silent???

wlio_snr · Post time 17-6-2009 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 17-6-2009 16:21

Gb always bashed calling forummer lebih buruk dari binatang and etc......Moderator do not take any action on this issue.

look at all his thread, gb other forummer from Sep, lanukota and ...

because there's nothing

kharrr kharrr kharrrrr

gunblade712 · Post time 17-6-2009 09:30 PM

amende kau nih Truth.8?

Truth.8, in case you've forgotten, YOU called ME "generation of vipers" , but then IT IS PROVEN THAT YOU'VE MISUNDERSTOOD MY SIMPLE STATEMENT.

no apologize or whatsoever from you.

YOU ran away from a discussion, YOU called Islam as the teachings of Satan..

Why moderators didn't take action on you?

Cakap lebih, diri sendiri tak nampak. cakap bodoh kang, kau marah.

mawarputeh · Post time 17-6-2009 10:19 PM

We put Jesus and the Father and the Holy Ghost under one same divine level... because they are ONE same God. The Father is Jesus and The Holy Ghost... Jesus is the Father and the Holy Ghost... The Holy Ghost is the Father and Jesus. Same God with different names.

Yes... I know that Allah is higher than Muhammad... but if you see the Asmaul Husna... which represent Allah'names with His attributes... Most Merciful, Most High, Most there and etc..etc..that is the good example of explaining the Trinity...where the Father and The Holy Ghost and Jesus are three different names for ONE same God..

Jesus begging to His Father?. God represented Himself as different forms in different situations. To make His mission accomplish... God can do anything He want.. He fated that part of Him (a.k.a Jesus Christ) to be the Saviour and to be the one who begging Himself... I see no problems on that because God can be the writer of the story and He also can be the actor of it. Either one or both.

gunblade712 · Post time 18-6-2009 12:11 AM

that's the thing, mawarputeh.

The Beautiful Names only belongs to Allah, and Him Alone.

There's a difference between the concept of Trinity and the concept of Asma wa Sifat.

We call Allah, the ONE GOD with various names which has been taught to us. The Most Merciful. The Source of All Peace. The Most Just. The Most Gracious.

99 Names attributing to One God, Allah.

Trinity, however, have a different concept. People who believed in the Trinity believed that Jesus is God. A walking person is God. A walking, talking, eating, drinking, sleeping person is God.

Get the drift? 99 Asma wa Sifat is 99 names of Allah taught to us.

It's like calling me GB or gunblade or gunblade 712. Three names. One person.

If Jesus Christ is God, then you would say that the disciples has already seen God with their eyes. Yes Jesus Christ himself put his head down and asked The Father of the Heaven to save him from the calamity.

Oh, and now I have a question regarding your statment. You say that...

Jesus Christ = The Father = Holy Ghost

and..

Jesus Christ + The Father + Holy Ghost = ONE GOD.

Right?

Here, I found something which somehow contradicting to what you say.. :

Did I just misunderstood the concept of Trinity? Got it from wikipedia, under the topic of "Trinity".

airfilterkotor · Post time 18-6-2009 01:48 PM

The questions is "Why Jesus..?"

"In the name of The Father The Son and The Holy Ghost"
In hierarchy, The Father is the most highest.

Take a look at this one:
"God, Prophet and angel Gabriel"

You put The Father infront of anything else.
If you said these three name bare the same divine(level), why dont you put it like this:
"In the name of The Son and The Holy Ghost and The Father"
...or
"In the name of The Holy Ghost The Fahter and The Son"
Both can fit with your concept of god's name, there're all in same level.

So, the questions is "Why Jesus..?"

Jesus begging to His Father?. God represented Himself as different forms in different situations. To make His mission accomplish...

See...you just said that. Different form in diff. situations.
One on heaven, the other on earth and the other wandering around on earth.

God can do anything He want..

Definitely, but.....

He fated that part of Him (a.k.a Jesus Christ) to be the Saviour and to be the one who begging Himself... I see no problems on that because God can be the writer of the story and He also can be the actor of it. Either one or both.

Now you associates god with His creations.

If someone ask you;
"Can your god do anything?" "Yes."
"Like he appeared as a human?" "Yes."
"Can your god make a impossible things beyond human thinking?" "Yes."
"Can your god make a huge massive of rock?" "Yes."
"A rock that so big that nobody on earth cant lift it?" "Yes."
"Even anything on His creations cant lift it" "Yes."

"Including Himself...??"

That what makes your concept of god(trinity) so weak.