hidayah dan akal

mbhcsf

it is a good question though as both are equally abstracts in nature and u know what both of these entities are "functioning" either independently OR interdependently with regards to one another.

kat sini kita lihat sistem nilai yg akhirnya u know memberi "the final touch" kan...
kita boleh berfikir dan itulah anugerah Allah  pada manusia ,,and i think sebab itu lh kata org kita diletakkkan as the nymber one ...
The ability to think or perceive on things , this is what  makes us human.

tetapi bila unsur hidayah  atau "enlightenment" dianyam bersama / being weaved in  , kita akan  melihat bahawa faktor - faktor yg  mempengaruhi pemkiran atau jenis pemikiran tu juga penting nuk memahami kenapa org perceive / mempunyai persepsi lain...sebab depa menilai dalam sudut pandangan yg berbeza tu yg kita lihat  "hati tak nak tapi faham tu" - dan kita pula kena sedar yg kita perceived satu kalangan lagi pun kerana kita mempunyai nilai nilai tretentu .


so kat mana nilai ni datang? well , ini dari asuhan lah , cara didikan, personaliti  - thinking style, ciri sahsiah etc etc semua ni akan pengaruhi minda  tapi bila sistem nilai ada inidah jadi macam feedback lah....sebab ini perlunya iman...dan of course iman,.hidayah akal  wow man lagi abstrak.

lagi pun hidayah ni Allah yg bagi...tapi to trigger it to ....cuba tengok yg kita katakan org dapat hidayah ni, depa kan u  all nampak  org yg pada mulanya mencari, then aware and then depa observant ..kan?

they see, then digest, internalised and rationalised. Then ketika tu kita realised , we reflects and then masa refelect tu lah , masa kita bermuhasabah tu kan sistem nilai dah main peranan....

then again,  ALLAH ni mAHA BIJAKSANA- DIa bagi kebebasan untuk pilihan dibuat berdasarkan pengetahuan you ( component cognitive) , rasa you ( emotion) , motivasi you ( namapak nikompnen action) so in a
way ...ada macam satu loop kan ? minds - enlightenment - value system ...

It is  kind of harmonious link, dion't you think?

i like this thread

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 20-11-2008 12:56 AM ]

mbhcsf

his / her thinking would be the same though , well regarding to the basic  common sense , knowledge on  things .

When it comes down to those of theological or philosophical  chapters, then  you could see  semantics at the highest level and how this is influenced by many other things - perception, values held , ubringing?, personality, etc etc...

mbhcsf

tapi saya suka Taksonomy BLOOM..., Bloom taxonomy tu , menarik.sapa yg pakar in this boleh share tak...

mbhcsf

thne u would want to stop and pause,  perhati sekeliling ,"see" thing, feel those things,  u know..and saying this, wow how did this happened, who makes it thsi way , wow whoever makes/ creates this must be so so  SUPREMELY CLEVER and BEAUTIFUL and ya ALLAH ...actually subhanallah apa yg u akan cakap last sekali..U REFLECT balik
u cuba tengok lah struktur dalam daun tu..nice kan? so u tengok daun strukturnya dalam  mikroskop, u lihat those cells you ihat aah thisine yg absorb  cahaya - light is unique kan, and u say...takkan lah benda ni jadi dgn ....sendiri , whoever made this must be  ya ALLAH dah NAMPAK Semuanya in every way mmg pandailah PENCIPTANYA...PERFECT ( Al - Kamal milik ALLAH)

petola

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 20-11-2008 01:01 AM
his / her thinking would be the same though , well regarding to the basic  common sense , knowledge on  things .

When it comes down to those of theological or philosophical  chapters, then  yo ...

soalnya mengapa sikristian, even the most knowlegable ones, yg mengkaji agama dia sendiri bertahun2 misalnya, atau mengkaji agama Islam bertahun2, tapi masih tak nampak mana benar mana palsu... masih tetap kristian gak....

berilah 100 atau 1000 rasional tang kebenaran Islam misalnya, atau kepalsuan agama mereka, mereka akan tetap berpegang pada apa yg mereka percayai gak..

sebab itulah saya tanya...apa istimewanya akal orang Islam hingga boleh nampak kebenaran, dan apa kurangnya akal bukan Islam hingga tak nampak kebenaran Islam...



given muslims hanya 1/5 drp penduduk dunia, nampaknya tuhan kedekut gak pasal hidayah ni ya...

[ Last edited by  petola at 20-11-2008 06:50 PM ]

mbhcsf

well ...
hmmm.....ok, how about definition of iman?
iman means membenarkan sesuatu di dalam hati, mengakui dengan lidah and mengamalkannya dengan seluruh anggota?

so iman and akal?
u link them together maka u dapat "lihat" / think differently , meaning u menerima lah kan sesuatu  dan percayalah kan?

petola

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 20-11-2008 07:34 PM
well ...
hmmm.....ok, how about definition of iman?
iman means membenarkan sesuatu di dalam hati, mengakui dengan lidah and mengamalkannya dengan seluruh anggota?

so iman and akal?
u link  ...

what made us confidently membenarkan sesuatu itu dlm hati?
perlu ada bukti2 atau alasan2?

mbhcsf

Originally posted by petola at 20-11-2008 09:08 PM


what made us confidently membenarkan sesuatu itu dlm hati?
perlu ada bukti2 atau alasan2?

simply faith, logic and supported by evidence. just look at the story of prophet Ibrahim...he was  searching for god - ilah at  a very young age - 4? 5 years old i think  and initially he observed the celestial  bodies and he  then  thought  [ see cognitive and logic components] that  the sun must be assuming such supreme entity / position since it is so big, brightens the earth during daylights, but then fades off  during the dusk so he thought  it cannot be the sun then. After that he saw the moon and he thought the could be the one, again the moon dissapear during the daylights so he reasoned that he one is replaceable by anither , it cannot be so great so it must be something else more u know stronger , everlasting ..... cam tu jer ....but the rest is history lah

yes at  the point  when one becomes enlightened or realised / aware of something then i am sure there's a stimulus (i) at play.....but then again those things related to the "affair of the heart " as one forumner used to say , surely has to a certain extend u know bears a "GOD" factor in it...ntah...

again depends on how convincing is the da'i  as well as his credibility...
certain scientist just being enlightened by the very scientific facts but with i am not going to latch on it lah sat gi berkelahi i kena panggil ibnur....

so , post - script : any improvement of my postings over the years Saudara?

mbhcsf

eh Hami any thought on this?? u huuu Hami.....this your cup of tea ni.......

petola

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 20-11-2008 10:24 PM

simply faith, logic and supported by evidence. just look at the story of prophet Ibrahim...he was  searching for god - ilah at  a very young age - 4? 5 years old i think  and initially he obser ...

when u said `membenarkan dalam hati'... macam menekankan yg iman adalah berkaitan hati... bukannya otak/akal..
so `logic and supported by evidence' macam takda peranan kat sini...

betul gitu?

mbhcsf

it is faith yes but ada peranan logiklah

alaa u know , it is macam ni tau segala apa benda yg berlaku mengikut ketentuan , laws / sunnatullah , so jika kita percaya [ mmg i percaya] pun yg Al - Khalik  tu pencipta dan sumber segala - galanya, maka do not u agree dan segala cabang ilmu itu walupun mencapah sejauh mana , diverge lah katakan, tapi bila kita tengok and trace balik sumbernya ia akan berpusatkan  pada yg satu tu jugak so  ada juga convergent point and within this don't u feel that apa  benda pun u know sifat , attributes sesuatu entiti tu mesti dan mesti punyalah ada cara for HIM to show his power/ signs etc etc let it be in linguistics or in physics ker u know or even i dunno say , something as "LAW" i dunno mesti ada  the interlink with one another and and these links actually started with a common point - teh knowledge PROVIDER  tu lah so in a way ,

iman yes it is logik and faith - like

u know uknow mind / akal tu exist but you cannot prove it but the logic is that you could go to psychiatric unit and see what happened when this nikmat ALLAH TARIK

yg penting kat dunia ni nikmat iman dan akal

petola

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 21-11-2008 08:36 AM
it is faith yes but ada peranan logiklah

alaa u know , it is macam ni tau segala apa benda yg berlaku mengikut ketentuan , laws / sunnatullah , so jika kita percaya [ mmg i percaya] pun yg Al  ...

jadi apa hubungkaitnya iman dengan akal ni dalam say... mind and body sciences/philosophy

bagaimana kedua2nya supporting each other... sebab kalau kita tengok banyak ahli teologi/falsafah barat yg terkenal kata `faith is beyond reason'.

kata mereka kita kena keluar dari domain akal dan kena lompat jauh2  untuk masuk dalam domain faith...

[ Last edited by  petola at 21-11-2008 08:48 AM ]

noor2

hidayah ni merupakan petunjuk dari Allah kepada hamba yang dipilihNya....

sebagai manusia yang cukup akal dan tidak gila pula...kita boleh menilai jalan mana yang betul atau mana yang salah....jadi kita jangan jadi manusia egois atau bodoh sombong... ilmu ada di mana2 hanya hati dan akal kita sepatutnya berfikir cara untuk mendapatkan ilmu dan mempelajari dan mempraktikkannya setelah kita nilai dan mempertimbangkan dengan sedalam dalamnya oleh akal yang dibari olehNya...

ambik contoh perkara syirik....salah satu penggunaan tangkal untuk penyembuhan penyakit...kalau kita anggap tangkal tu yang menyebabkan kita bertambah baik..bertambah sembuh dari penyakit ..itu bermakna kita menuju ke arah perkara syirik...

begitu juga taksubnya kita terhadap benda2 lain selainNya...kejadian atau peristiwa2 lalu boleh kita jadikan contoh atau kajian sekiranya kita rajin memperdalamkan ilmu dan menambah ilmu...ilmu tuhan itu terlalu luas..cuma kita hambaNya yang tidak mempergunakan akal sempurna yang telah dikurniakanNya....

Umur setelah akil baligh seharusnya pandai menilai sesuatu yang baik dan buruk..jangan kita sentiasa mempersalahkan org lain apabila kita terjerumus ke arah keburukan dan kesesatan..ini kerana Allah s.w.t telah mengurniakan kita akal yang sempurna...

mbhcsf

Originally posted by petola at 21-11-2008 08:47 AM
jadi apa hubungkaitnya iman dengan akal ni dalam say... mind and body sciences/philosophy
bagaimana kedua2nya supporting each other... sebab kalau kita tengok banyak ahli teologi/falsafah  ...

how and by which mechanism , ek? hmm..lemme think

okay first by shaping or molding the way  you view certain things or in short  by influencing your perspective.
Yes , you and I could have looked at it in many angles and different layers but then, there 's always a right angle , kan? this would concur with maths - geometry ...
so, by allowing the belief / faith in one's heart  you are indirectly  or subconsciously permitting this belief and recognize all the attributes, everything that connected with it  TO BE THE TRUTH  according to one belief system and hold yourself  firmly to it  and what;'s more important you are believing  strongly in this faith  and  this would ALSO  entails you are believing the words of Allah  and hence  Al l  -  Quran ( that is part of  IMAN  right )  , so by just discovery or witnessing a natural phenomenon  or   you know any thing really  in this face of the Earth you will  actually relate to  what  has been given / ordained / determined by ALLAH..so it reciprocates very well with each other really the Faith - Cognitive component. the ability to relate of what 's being observed, thought of and synthesize  , irrespective whether that discovery is going to be proven wrong or with some modifications ( later on )  but then again IF this did happen , we could only  be sure that there' another pathway of discovery to unravel and another  branch of knowledge to explore and how WONDERFUL  ALLAH is., right ?

So , in conclusion , it helps to shape one 's world view, perspective, the way one sees things... because so many people will view it differently but you need a firm criterion to base your thought onto, right? So , at this point it seemed that  the value system is pivotal  at  stage of thinking then.

sapa cakap iman and ilmu kena sepadu.. kan?

so iman ni ada affect ( emotive component), motive( action) , and cognitive part so  well voila = integration

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 21-11-2008 03:30 PM ]

mbhcsf

faith is beyond reason?

well look How easy it is a say, a person like Bilal  and a very knowlegable person like Saiyidina ALI  or even Al - Ghazali views ISLAM According to their level of intellects...so u say faith is beyond reason?

hmm....ok, that's what you are saying / quoted people  as sayings lah

mbhcsf

but then again depends on who said what and which time  that was ( the era) , and which mental frameworking they are based onto....kan?

petola

saya pernah tulis ini somewhere:-

Faith, a kind of attitude of trust, involves a stance towards some claim that is not demonstrable by reason, at least for now. Religiously it came from an authority or revelation.

Some believed that faith is offensive to reason, or it is above or beyond reason. 揑 believe because it is absurd

mbhcsf

But clever Aquinas says one cannot believe by faith and know by rational demonstration the very same truth. Why? Because this would make one or the other kind of knowledge superflous. Hmmm

petola

[quote]Originally posted by mbhcsf at 21-11-2008 07:35 PM
But clever Aquinas says one cannot believe by faith and know by rational demonstration the very same truth. Why? Because this would make one or the other kind of knowledge superflous. Hmmm

petola

preamble:-

Hijjaz - Mata Hati

Pandangan mata selalu menipu
Pandangan akal selalu tersalah
Pandangan nafsu selalu melulu
Pandangan hati itu yang hakiki
Kalau hati itu bersih

Hati kalau terlalu bersih
Pandangannya kan menembusi hijab
Hati jika sudah bersih
Firasatnya tepat kehendak Allah
Tapi hati bila dikotori
Bisikannya bukan lagi kebenaran

Hati tempat jatuhnya pandangan Allah
Jasad lahir tumpuan manusia
Utamakanlah pandangan Allah
Daripada pandangan manusia