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Your Malay term Jiwa itself comes from Hindu philosophy, Jiva/Jeev...
Jiva = Individual souls
The other two are the atma (lights of God, the self) and paramatma (God, Highest Self)... The rest more or less has been explained in simple manner by Sephiroth.
We cannot equalize this system with Muslim ones. I'm not sure if Muslims have these concepts in their theologians discussion especially when it is followed with the Q.S 17:85.
Maybe we can compare this with Kabbalah philosophical view of the Jewish... Nefesh (divine force of life, breath), Neshamah (actual part of God found only in Jews) and Ruach haKodesh (divine inspiration) which all of these refer to soul but with different context...
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I think Muslims view the Universe in five general sections, without any notion on the existence of other galaxies (aakaashganga) or how the Universe evolves in their scriptures...
I get these from Muslim religious classes notes
1. Spiritual Realm
2. Earthly Realm
3. Masyar Realm
4. Paradise Realm
5. Hell Realm |
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The exegesis of the Q.S 17:85 mentions the reason why Muhammad receives the verse... It was when a Jew of Medina ask him to explain to them about soul or another version of narration, his own tribesmen's member consulting the Jewish on which question to ask Muhammad so the Jewish pandit asked him to ask about spiritual matter which is the Roh. Muhammad looked upon the sky when being asked and receives an inspiration which is the verse (Bukhari Manual; Ben Mas'ud)(Tirmidhi; Ben Abbas). |
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wei_loon5063 posted on 18-6-2014 11:23 PM 
The self is the result of craving that we claim this consciousness as ours. That we fail to real ...
In our Yogic philosophy, we call the I-Making (Ego) as ahamkar. Lord Buddha teaches that those which arise from the five aggregates as anatman... I believe he refers it to the False Self who rises from the aggregates. Perhaps, it is the matter of language differences so people understanding becomes different too.
The cause which makes the Jiva separates from God is due to ahamkara principle. Ego means the will to exist, it is one's aspiration for manifestation. This existence is only Maya (Illusion). The aim of Yoga is to get to know our self with the question, "aham kah?"... Who am I? We will question ourselves until we recognize our self as not the tattvas nor gunas but only sat... chit... ananda... shiva (the blessed one)...
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vikramavardhana posted on 19-6-2014 12:49 PM
In our Yogic philosophy, we call the I-Making (Ego) as ahamkar. Lord Buddha teaches that those whi ...
In our Yogic philosophy, we call the I-Making (Ego) as ahamkar. Lord Buddha teaches that those which arise from the five aggregates as anatman... I believe he refers it to the False Self who rises from the aggregates. Perhaps, it is the matter of language differences so people understanding becomes different too.
The cause which makes the Jiva separates from God is due to ahamkara principle. Ego means the will to exist, it is one's aspiration for manifestation. This existence is only Maya (Illusion). The aim of Yoga is to get to know our self with the question, "aham kah?"... Who am I? We will question ourselves until we recognize our self as not the tattvas nor gunas but only sat... chit... ananda...shiva (the blessed one)...
yes, he didnt menion about false self, but the craving, the illusion that claiming this self as mine.
in this thread, add an article in ahbidhamma pitaka
The mind at the time of death[size=14.399999618530273px]When a person is about to die the bhava"nga is interrupted, vibrates for one moment and passes away. The interruption is caused by an object which presents itself to the mind-door. As a result of this a mind-door-adverting citta arises. This is followed by five javana thought moments which are weak, lack reproductive power, and serve only to determine the nature of rebirth consciousness. The javanas may or may not be followed by two registering thought moments (tadaalambana). After this comes the death consciousness (cuti citta), which is identical in constitution and object to the bhava"nga citta. The cuti citta merely serves the function of signaling the end of life. It is important to appreciate the difference between the cuti citta and the javanas that precede it. The cuti citta is the end of the bhava"nga flow of an existence and does not determine the nature of rebirth. The javanas that occur just before the cuti citta arises form a kammic process and determine the nature of the rebirth consciousness. [size=14.399999618530273px]The object that presents itself to the mind-door just before death is determined by kamma on a priority basis as follows: - Some weighty action performed earlier by the dying person. This may be meritorious such as a jhaanic ecstasy, or it may be demeritorious, some heinous crime. Either of these would be so powerful as to eclipse all other kammas in determining rebirth. This is called garuka kamma.
- If there is no such weighty action, what has been done habitually — either good or bad — will ripen. This is called aaci.n.na kamma.
- If habitual kamma does not ripen what is called death-proximate kamma fructifies. In this case the thought that was experienced at the time of a good or bad action in the recent past recurs at the time of death. This is referred to as aasanna kamma.
- If the first three are lacking, some stored up kamma from the past will ripen. This is called ka.tatta kamma.
[size=14.399999618530273px]Dependent on one of the above mentioned four types of kamma, the object that presents itself to the mind-door could be one of three kinds: - The act (kamma) itself, especially if it was a weighty one.
- Some sign of the act (kammanimitta); for example, a butcher may see a knife, a hunter may see a gun or the slain animal, a pious devotee may see flowers at a shrine or the giving of alms to a monk.
- A sign of the place where the dying person will be reborn (gati nimitta), a vision of heaven, hell, etc.
[size=14.399999618530273px]This brief account of what will happen to us at death should impress on us the urgency of avoiding all evil acts by deed, word or thought and of performing wholesome meritorious acts. If we do not do so now, we cannot do so at the moment of death, which may come quite unexpectedly. As the Dhammapada states in verses 288 and 289: [size=14.399999618530273px]There are no sons for one's protection,Neither father nor even kinsmen;For one who is overcome by deathNo protection is to be found among kinsmen.Realizing this fact,Let the virtuous and wise personSwiftly clear the wayThat to nibbaana leads.[size=11.199999809265137px]— [size=11.199999809265137px]Dhp 288
Rebirth Consciousness[size=14.399999618530273px]This is called pa.tisandhi citta, literally "relinking consciousness." The pa.tisandhi citta is the act of consciousness which arises at the first moment of life, the moment of conception. It is determined by the last kammic citta of the preceding life. [size=14.399999618530273px]This kammic factor for the arising of a being operates through the pa.tisandhi. The accumulated tendencies of past lives are carried on to the pa.tisandhi and so the process of being born, dying and being born again goes on. Each pa.tisandhi citta is a new one, not the continuation of the old one in the previous life. Thus there is no place for a soul concept in rebirth. In the course of one particular life there is only one pa.tisandhi citta. Once the function of linking two existences has been performed by the pa.tisandhi, consciousness in the newly formed embryo immediately goes into the bhava"nga state. This flows along in the new existence with infinite interruptions by various stimuli and ends as the cuti citta of that particular existence. [size=14.399999618530273px]The practice of chanting Buddhist scriptures in the presence of a dying person is intended to evoke kusala kamma cittas in him so that the last thought process will be a wholesome one and lead to a favorable rebirth. [size=14.399999618530273px]Regardless of the conditions into which humans are born, be they handicapped or favored in various ways, birth in the human plane is the result of kusala kamma. It is only in the human plane that one can make a start to end all suffering. The Buddha has told us that, having left this human existence, not many will return to it for a long, long time. Therefore, it is up to us to make the most of this opportunity we have as human beings. The Jhaana cittas[size=14.399999618530273px]The cittas that occur through the five physical sense doors, and the mind-door cittas taking sense objects, belong to the sensuous plane of consciousness. They are calledkaamaavacara cittas. The jhaana cittas are meditative states of consciousness. Their object is not a sense impression but a meditation object experienced through the mind-door. The jhaana citta may depend on subtle materiality (ruupaavacara citta) or, if more refined, may be independent of materiality (aruupaavacara citta). [size=14.399999618530273px]There are five stages of ruupa jhaana and four of aruupa jhaana. No attempt will be made to analyze these stages except to state that each is more refined than its predecessor. [size=14.399999618530273px]It is extremely difficult to attain even the first stage of jhaana. To do so one has to be well established in virtue (siila) and eliminate the five mental hindrances, at least temporarily. These five hindrances are: sense desire (kaamacchanda), ill-will (vyaapaada), sloth and torpor (thiina and middha), restlessness and worry (uddhacca and kukkucca), and doubt (vicikicchaa). [size=14.399999618530273px]Though difficult, it is well worth attempting to attain jhaana by regular and ardent practice of samatha bhaavanaa, i.e., concentration-meditation. Even if we do not reach the first stage of jhaana, even a brief elimination of the five mental hindrances will give us a taste of a happiness which far surpasses that derived from the senses. When restlessness, anxiety and worry try to overwhelm us in our daily lives we will benefit by sitting for a period and developing concentration. We will realize that nothing is more satisfying than the ability to keep a check on the frivolous, fickle mind.
Last edited by wei_loon5063 on 19-6-2014 01:34 PM
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by vikramavardhana
Maybe we can compare this with Kabbalah philosophical view of the Jewish... Nefesh (divine force of life, breath), Neshamah (actual part of God found only in Jews) and Ruach haKodesh (divine inspiration) which all of these refer to soul but with different context...
Actually Kabbalah refers to the Creation of physical matter and the Universe and not about Soul and what happens after death. |
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What about immortality? Does it has any link with incarnation?  |
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Dzulqarnain posted on 20-6-2014 04:55 AM
What about immortality? Does it has any link with incarnation?
buddhism reject the eternal soul(we are merely compilation of five khanda)
reincarnation or transmigation of soul is hindhism. Buddhism focus on rebirth.
Ada beza kedua tu
However, Buddhists often speak of "rebirth." If there is no soul or permanent self, what is it that is "reborn"? What Is the Self?The Buddha taught that what we think of as our "self" -- our ego, self-consciousness and personality -- is a creation of the skandhas. Very simply, our bodies, physical and emotional sensations, conceptualizations, ideas and beliefs, and consciousness work together to create the illusion of a permanent, distinctive "me." The Buddha said, “Oh, Bhikshu, every moment you are born, decay, and die.” He meant that, every moment, the illusion of "me" renews itself. Not only is nothing carried over from one life to the next; nothing is carried over from one moment to the next. This takes us to the Three Marks of Existence, in particular anicca, "impermanence." The Buddha taught that all phenomena, including beings, are in a constant state of flux -- always changing, always becoming, always dying. In his book What the Buddha Taught (1959), Theravada scholar Walpola Rahula asked, "If we can understand that in this life we can continue without a permanent, unchanging substance like Self or Soul, why can't we understand that those forces themselves can continue without a Self or Soul behind them after the non-functioning of the body? "When this physical body is no more capable of functioning, energies do not die with it, but continue to take some other shape or form, which we call another life. ... Physical and mental energies which constitute the so-called being have within themselves the power to take a new form, and grow gradually and gather force to the full." "... the Buddha’s experience was that when you go beyond the skandhas, beyond the aggregates, what remains is nothing. The self is an idea, a mental construct. That is not only the Buddha’s experience, but the experience of each realized Buddhist man and woman from 2,500 years ago to the present day. That being the case, what is it that dies? There is no question that when this physical body is no longer capable of functioning, the energies within it, the atoms and molecules it is made up of, don’t die with it. They take on another form, another shape. You can call that another life, but as there is no permanent, unchanging substance, nothing passes from one moment to the next. Quite obviously, nothing permanent or unchanging can pass or transmigrate from one life to the next. Being born and dying continues unbroken but changes every moment." Thought Moment to Thought MomentThe teachers tell us that "me" is a series of thought-moments. Each thought-moment conditions the next thought-moment. In the same way, the last thought-moment of one life conditions the first thought-moment of another life, which is the continuation of a series. "The person who dies here and is reborn elsewhere is neither the same person, nor another," Walpola Rahula wrote. This is not easy to understand, and cannot be fully understood with intellect alone. For this reason, many schools of Buddhism emphasize a meditation practice that enables intimate realization of the illusion of self.
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Dzulqarnain posted on 20-6-2014 04:55 AM
What about immortality? Does it has any link with incarnation?
Define what you meant by immortality. What supposed to be immortal here?
If you say the Soul, then Soul is immortal to begin with. It survived the physical death of the body and takes another host (body) to occupy. Except for God, nothing can destroy the Soul.
If you say the Body, then nothing physical in the Universe meant to exist forever. Which means even if you to live 1000 yugas, you will still die in the end.
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by wei_loon5063
buddhism reject the eternal soul(we are merely compilation of five khanda)
reincarnation or transmigation of soul is hindhism. Buddhism focus on rebirth
Which is why Buddhism doesn't make sense to me. IF nothing survives physical death, then what is there to seek Enlightenment for? One should just enjoy physical and materialistic pleasures of life while still alive and die without any regrets. |
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Sephiroth posted on 20-6-2014 09:42 AM
by wei_loon5063
no energy could be created nor destroy.
enlightenment is the cessation of becoming. the cessation of volition/kamma
its akin to mooksha. the joining of one Last edited by wei_loon5063 on 21-6-2014 05:53 PM
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wei_loon5063 posted on 21-6-2014 05:43 PM
no energy could be created nor destroy.
enlightenment is the cessation of becoming. the cessa ...
No, what Buddhists calls as Enlightnment is merely stopping the flow of birth (cease the flow of Karma which creates new bodies). You merely cease to be (anything).
Moksha (or unification with God) in Hinduism is not about stopping Karma. It is to unify the Individual Soul with Paramathma (Universal Soul). Such person could still be born in the World and commit great goodness for sake of the Universe and its sentient beings. He will become like God.
Therefore, Enlightnment in Buddhism is NOT EQUAL to Moksha of Hinduism. 
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Dzulqarnain posted on 22-6-2014 07:36 AM
What you perceive reflects your SELF
and this is how humans being unique
- one of the eternal me ...
soalan ni ditujukan kepada saya?
sebelum saya mula,
ajarab buddha tak ajar reincarnation, tapi rebirth. reincarnation tu hinduism
buddha menolak konsep roh/diri abadi. bermaksud, tak ada satu benda yg dipanggil diri yang abadi, yang kekal, yang mempunyai kesadaran/perasaan/pemikiran yg kekal. semua adalah kesadaran(perasaan, percepsi, volition dan kesadaran) yg sentiasa berubah menikut masa kini.
macam quantum mechanics, segala jisim terdiri daripada atam, atom terdiri daripada electron, electron terdiri drpd quarks, quarks terdiri drpd photon, photon terdiri drpd energy. energy terdiri daripada particle yg bergetar. (ni member Bodhitakso jelas dgn detail).
so, apa yg manusia "sedar" conscious adalah arus getaran
(telinga dengar bunyi-getaran udara;
mata nampak benda - pantulan cahaya; getaran electromagnetic wave
hidung hidu bau - bau tu getaran electron dan hidung adalan sensor yg kesan jenis bahan kimia.
macam komputer. keyboard, tetikus, cpu, monitor, dll campur dan jadikan sebagai PC.
cth: bila kau cakap saya, amak maksud saya?
umur 20, warna cerah, cina, malaysia, panas baran, suka ni, karaktor gitu dll...
bila masa berlalu, semua berubah
umur 30, werna gelap dah, cina, mungkin berhijrah, jadi australian, dah tak panas baran etc...
dan org cakap, eh, kau dah berubah. kalau ada roh badi, kenapa akan berubah?
JADI, apa pula yg ada pada saya? stream of consciousness. seperti sungai, sentiasa berubah. minda seperti sungai, sentiasa berubah, always refresh its definition of self. badan anda 90% bukan milik anda. ianya satu dunia untuk bacteria,cell dll...
buddha cakap: setiap detik anda dilahirkan, reput dan mati
bermaksud. andaikan definisi anda bahawa anda umur 40, untuk mencapai umur 41, umur 40 yg anda mesti reput(old age) dan mati untk melahirkan diri umur 41 yg anda
Q1: Do reincarnation transit horizontally (earthly) or vertically (heavenly)...?
buddha: manusia cipta utara, selatan timur baran dan percaya ianya betul.
REBIRTH do not exist vertical ke langit. atau mendatar. kelangit, lepastu? ke alam semesta? dr research sains, alam semesta ni 99.999% kosong. dan mata manusia dll hanya dapat mentafsir sedikit shj.
balik kepada soalan anda. bila manusia mati. badan akan reput dan jadi makanan untuk serangga atau binatang. dan energy yg terkandung dlm tu tak akan hilang. ia akan jadi tenaga untuk binatang tu lagi. dan seterusnya. sama macam minda. bila mati. minda tak akan hilang. ia akan mengambil bentuk berlainan. bentuk macam mana? itu bergantung kepada bila manusia hidup, apa yg anda lakukan. cth: anda selalu marah, jadi anda akan jadi seorang yg pemarah. dan mengambil bentuk sebagai pemarah. bila anda berbuat baik, macam islam. minda akan jadi tenang dan getaran energy akan jadi berkuasa. (ni yg dipanggil law of attraction) anda dapat apa yg anda idamkan. macam quran cakap. anda fikir shj. akan dapat di surga
Q2: Is it bodily or spiritually (if raised)? 
mental. nak senang faham. bayangkan sepeti komputer.
bodily tu hardware ; spiritually(mental factor) tu software. bila anda masuk programme yg hebat, anda memerlukan hardware yg hebat. bila kena reboot/upgrade, automatic software akan bergabung dengan hardware yg setaraf
p/s: Jz briefly, pls no need to cnp. 
KALAU ADA MASA, YOU BOLEH BACA LINK INI....
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books/Ajahn_Brahm_The_Jhanas.pdf
pasal minda
Last edited by wei_loon5063 on 22-6-2014 02:18 PM
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Dzulqarnain posted on 22-6-2014 06:46 AM
When both the soul and the self in eternal bond...
- or this is much further than post-reincarn ...
No, the soul do not bond with the Self (the Mind).
The Mind is created upon birth and dies with the physical body.
The Mind experience fear, tranquility, pain, pleasure, happiness, sadness and other emotions.
The Mind experience many things but all of them are temporary only.
The bond between Soul and the Mind are broken once death occurs.
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Sephiroth posted on 22-6-2014 12:17 PM
No, the soul do not bond with the Self (the Mind).
The Mind is created upon birth and dies with ...
The Mind is created upon birth and dies with the physical body
If the mind dies with he body, what is there to incarnate? |
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wei_loon5063 posted on 22-6-2014 07:50 PM
The Mind is created upon birth and dies with the physical body
If the mind dies wit ...
The Soul, stupid. It is the Soul that reincarnates, not the Mind.
The Soul is indestructible. It was born when the Universe was formed and it will last as long as the Universe exists. It behave like a primodial seed, planting itself into gross matter and evolve it over time (physically) so the gross matter could become more useful in achieving its purpose - which is to evolve Spiritually so it could become mature and return to its primodial Source (God). That is what Moksha is in Hinduism.
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Difference between soul and mind! |
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wei_loon5063 posted on 23-6-2014 06:38 PM
Difference between soul and mind!
Soul is primodial energy - existed in the energy sphere which was the origin of the Universe before the big bang. Has no consciousness but pure energy. Spread across the Universe and become two form - one to form the gross matter which the physical universe was created, and a smaller portion which become consciousness.
Mind - nothing more than creation of the physical body in interaction with the environment around the body. Learns through experience, creates duality in existence - seeks pleasure and avoid plain. Very active and creates its own "path". Interaction between the Mind and the Environment is what we call Evolution of Life. Creates Karma which leads to its future existence (by binding the Soul to existence).
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Post time 19-6-2014 11:51 AM
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