ISIS are true muslims !

wkk5159

QURAN SAYS: “IF ANY ONE KILLS SOMEONE IT IS AS IF HE KILLED THE WHOLE HUMANITY”.....Typical taqiya in Quran

Muslims either purposely being deceptive or he/she may be an ignorant Muslim who has never actually read the Quran and simply repeats what others tell him is in the Quran.

Sura 5:32:

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person –unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be asif he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.”

Even a casual reader will note that this injunction applies only to the “Children of Israel,” which is to say, the Jews. This is not meant for nor does it apply to Muslims.

This verse allows Jews to kill someone if that person is a murderer or if that person has spread mischief in the land, such as adultery, fornication, lying, etc. It should be noted that the word “innocent” is no where in that verse.

And how should those who spread mischief be punished? What Muslims will not quote to infidels is the very next verse, 5:33:

Indeed,the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

Ah, no wonder Muslims omit the next verse, it is a prescription for violence and savage butchery. Fornicators, adulterers, thieves, and others are to be killed or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off from opposite sides. Now I want you to think about that last part. Allah does not want your right hand and foot to be cut off, or your left hand and foot, but opposite sides. Left hand and right foot or right hand and left foot. The God of Islam wants mischief-makers to suffer lop-sided. Is there anything more cruel and barbaric than Islam?

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 6-8-2015 09:44 AM
Maslanic ustazy aka sam1528 is still regurgitating the rancid query and fake pseudodyslexic, then this tested and tried truth is the perfect antidote...

"The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam.”  
By Graeme Wood; he is an editor at the magazine as well as a lecturer in political science at Yale University.  (original)


"The reality is that the Ku Klux Clan is Christian. Very Christian.Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Central North America. But the religion preachedby its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learnedinterpretations of Christianity.” By sissy cum run out of idea self destructive ustazy sam1528 (poor desperate edited forgery )

LOL , you are still 'maslaning' around. How come you are so scared to address the issues brought up in my post#61.

Since you are too scared , I repeat what is my argument. My post #61 refers to post #59 which I stated :

Ha ha , you have already come to the end of your wits. You have nothing left. Ok then , to amplify my previous point I am going to substitute Ku Klux Clan for ISIS , Christianity for Islam and Central America for Middle East and Europe. Lets see how the paragraph pans out :

Which goes back to post#57 which states :

LOL any religion preached by its ardent followers derives from their coherent and learned interpretation , this includes Christianity etc. Learning and preaching something is different from practicing it. Oops don't tell me , to you something is very religious if it is being preached following a coherent and learned interpretation but not from the actions of its adherents. Hate to break your bubble but you are again wrong ..... as usual.

Therefore you are just trying to avoid the point I am making but prefer to skirt around and of course going around in circles chasing your own backside.

So how? Can answer or not? I don't think you are in any position to answer ..... too bad

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 6-8-2015 09:57 AM
Killing is killing and when cornered with truth, this Maslanic ustazy comes out with typical Maslanic answer;

2:189 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is [in] one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.
2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33


But this Maslanic ustazy sam1528 initial question was;
"Back to the issue on hand : You blame Islam. The question still remain - where in the Quran that states for the murder of others?" Post 73#

Now suddenly killing in defence of his beloved vile prophet becomes....Not an act of killing according to this pious Maslanic muslim aka sam1528....

Any wonder why i said ISIS are true muslims ???

LOL , now you are trying to argue the so called act of defence of Prophet Muhammad(saw) to the act of killing by muslims.

Killing is killing? What nonsense are you talking about? Killing is usually in self defense , in war and after a death penalty has been decreed whereas murder is permeditated. Aiyoo .... this one also you don't know aaah? No wonder you are going around in circles chasing your own backside.

The story now has changed from your contention of the Quranic call of murdering others to the act of killing by muslims. Apa daaa , why you change your story with the blink of an eye? No more points to argue or what?

Therefore you now agree that so far you cannot find any Quranic verse that calls for the murder of others. Then how come you blame Islam for the non existent Quranic obligation to murder others per your wet dreams?

Ha ha , your argument has bitten the dust ..... as it always do. Are you a citizen of Tipustan? Why are you still 'maslaning' around?

Again I ask you : where in the Quran that calls for the murder of others?

Ha ha , I say again : it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 6-8-2015 10:11 AM

QURAN SAYS: “IF ANY ONE KILLS SOMEONE IT IS AS IF HE KILLED THE WHOLE HUMANITY”.....Typical taqiya in Quran

Muslims either purposely being deceptive or he/she may be an ignorant Muslim who has never actually read the Quran and simply repeats what others tell him is in the Quran.

Sura 5:32:

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person –unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be asif he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.”

Even a casual reader will note that this injunction applies only to the “Children of Israel,” which is to say, the Jews. This is not meant for nor does it apply to Muslims.

This verse allows Jews to kill someone if that person is a murderer or if that person has spread mischief in the land, such as adultery, fornication, lying, etc. It should be noted that the word “innocent” is no where in that verse.

And how should those who spread mischief be punished? What Muslims will not quote to infidels is the very next verse, 5:33:

Indeed,the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

Ah, no wonder Muslims omit the next verse, it is a prescription for violence and savage butchery. Fornicators, adulterers, thieves, and others are to be killed or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off from opposite sides. Now I want you to think about that last part. Allah does not want your right hand and foot to be cut off, or your left hand and foot, but opposite sides. Left hand and right foot or right hand and left foot. The God of Islam wants mischief-makers to suffer lop-sided. Is there anything more cruel and barbaric than Islam?

LOL , why do you constantly trip over yourself to expose your ignorance?

Now you argue that the verse is only about the Children of Israel? Don't you know that the injunction for such is because at that time the Children of Israel were muslims because they had Prophet Moses(as) being their prophet and messenger. Being muslims , we have to follow the said injunction. Ha ha , casual reading? Maybe you should cross reference with Quran17:33 (sahih international)

And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law].

What again? Only for the Children of Israel? Go learn the Quran from wiki islam some more lah. So easy to refute and embarrass you.

What are you talking about adultery and fornication? Quran5:32 does not mention spread mischief , adultery and fornication. Why are you conveniently adding your wet dreams into the said verse. This is what we call attempting to blatantly lie. Appears that you are a liar after all

Isn't Quran5:33 referring to armed rebellion against the authority or government of the day? As far as I know , till now , the penalty for an armed rebellion in any country is punishable by death. However in the Quran it has 3 penalties
- killed
- hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides
- exile
Depends on the discretion of the judge.

What has 'waging war against Allah ...' got to do with fornicators , adulterers and thieves per your argument? Looks like you are again arguing from your wet dreams. Can you come back to reality and argue with the facts onhand? 'Maslaning' around again eh?

So easy to embarrass you.

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

wkk5159

This Maslanic ustazy finally shows his true color on the subject of killing in Islam, yea right, killing in defence of his vile prophet not considers a killing.....

This lame logic is just like a rapist rape a woman and said; " I rape her because i want to inpregnate her and not my evil lust..."   

Here it goes.....Maslanic ustazy aka sam1528 is still regurgitating the rancid query and fake pseudodyslexic, then this tested and tried truth is the perfect antidote...

"The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam.”  
By Graeme Wood; he is an editor at the magazine as well as a lecturer in political science at Yale University.  (original)


"The reality is that the Ku Klux Clan is Christian. Very Christian.Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Central North America. But the religion preachedby its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learnedinterpretations of Christianity.” By sissy cum run out of idea self destructive ustazy sam1528 (poor desperate edited forgery )

Killing is killing and when cornered with truth, this Maslanic ustazy comes out with typical Maslanic answer;

2:189 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is [in] one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.
2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33


But this Maslanic ustazy sam1528 initial question was;
"Back to the issue on hand : You blame Islam. The question still remain - where in the Quran that states for the murder of others?" Post 73#

Now suddenly killing in defence of his beloved vile prophet becomes....Not an act of killing according to this pious Maslanic muslim aka sam1528....

Any wonder why i said ISIS are true muslims ???

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 7-8-2015 11:55 AM
This Maslanic ustazy finally shows his true color on the subject of killing in Islam, yea right, killing in defence of his vile prophet not considers a killing.....

This lame logic is just like a rapist rape a woman and said; " I rape her because i want to inpregnate her and not my evil lust..."   

Here it goes.....Maslanic ustazy aka sam1528 is still regurgitating the rancid query and fake pseudodyslexic, then this tested and tried truth is the perfect antidote...


"The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam.”  
By Graeme Wood; he is an editor at the magazine as well as a lecturer in political science at Yale University.  (original)


"The reality is that the Ku Klux Clan is Christian. Very Christian.Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Central North America. But the religion preachedby its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learnedinterpretations of Christianity.” By sissy cum run out of idea self destructive ustazy sam1528 (poor desperate edited forgery )

Killing is killing and when cornered with truth, this Maslanic ustazy comes out with typical Maslanic answer;

2:189 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is [in] one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.
2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33


But this Maslanic ustazy sam1528 initial question was;
"Back to the issue on hand : You blame Islam. The question still remain - where in the Quran that states for the murder of others?" Post 73#

Now suddenly killing in defence of his beloved vile prophet becomes....Not an act of killing according to this pious Maslanic muslim aka sam1528....

Any wonder why i said ISIS are true muslims ???

LOL , see folks , the story has changed already. Told you 'wkk5159-maslan' is good in trying to change stories when cornered.

The point in discussion here is murder not killing. Murder is premeditated with an objective. Since you cannot find any verse in the Quran that calls for the murder of others you now change your story to killing. In war specifically in a battle there is killing not murder. Too bad you lost again and again. BTW , rape is also premeditated. LOL , appears that you don't even understand what you are arguing about yet you claim to be a 'true professional and an expert in your field'.

The question still remain : where in the Quran that calls for the murder of others?

Ha ha , it is so easy to refute you. The evidence when you've lost is that you keep on repeating yourself like a broken record. My point per my post#57

LOL any religion preached by its ardent followers derives from their coherent and learned interpretation , this includes Christianity etc. Learning and preaching something is different from practicing it. Oops don't tell me , to you something is very religious if it is being preached following a coherent and learned interpretation but not from the actions of its adherents. Hate to break your bubble but you are again wrong ..... as usual.

Therefore when you substitute Christianity for Islam etc , you get the same rhetoric. Thus you are arguing on rhetoric not facts. Arguing with rhetorics are employed by people who do not have facts , data nor evidence ..... oops ..... I am describing you after all.

How come so scared to answer wan?

Two problems with your appealed to Quranic verse.
(1) In all major translation there is no 'murder' in it. You added it yourself and the evidence is that you are scared to provide your reference
(2) Up till now , any country in this world , the penalty for an armed rebellion against the Government or authority of the day is usually death.

Therefore what is wrong with Quran5:33? No answer again .... too bad .... the standard of a christian apologist in the like of 'wkk5159-maslan'

Ha ha , so scared to answer aaah?

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

wkk5159

Now this Maslanic ustazy wanna argue about killing and murder in his Quran???

Let's see what his Quran has to say....

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing....Quran 2:191


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33

Bingo ! What to do ? No wonder he enjoys shooting his own head.

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 8-8-2015 05:30 PM
Now this Maslanic ustazy wanna argue about killing and murder in his Quran???

Let's see what his Quran has to say....

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing....Quran 2:191


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33

Bingo ! What to do ? No wonder he enjoys shooting his own head.

Ha ha , observe folks how 'wkk5159-maslan' try to again run from the issue he has problems answering.

- he doesn't even know the difference between killing and murder
- till now he cannot find any quranic verse that calls for the murder of others
- he thinks rhetorics is equivalent to facts , data and evidence

When cornered he changes his story.

LOL , now you are blabbering about Quran2:191. Hmmm , I will repost what I stated in my post#78 , 2 verses before and after :

2:189 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is [in] one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.
2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

For the second time , your argument is what we call 'out of context'. Liars usually employ such argument. Appears that you are confirming yourself to be a liar. Yes?

Quran5:33? You still have not answered me from my post#86 :
Two problems with your appealed to Quranic verse.
(1) In all major translation there is no 'murder' in it. You added it yourself and the evidence is that you are scared to provide your reference
(2) Up till now , any country in this world , the penalty for an armed rebellion against the Government or authority of the day is usually death.

Therefore what is wrong with Quran5:33?

No answer again .... too bad .... the standard of a christian apologist in the like of 'wkk5159-maslan'

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

wkk5159

This brethren of ISIS just show to the world what a true muslim he is.....

Yea right, trangressors and apostate must be killed according to Quran, need us to say further ???

Quran 4:89 "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

From Hadith;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Like i said ziillion times before; one cannot defends something which is indefendable.....

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 9-8-2015 01:15 PM
his brethren of ISIS just show to the world what a true muslim he is.....

Yea right, trangressors and apostate must be killed according to Quran, need us to say further ???

Quran 4:89 "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

From Hadith;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Like i said ziillion times before; one cannot defends something which is indefendable.....

Aiiik! Lari lagi ka? As usual , the modus operandi of 'wkk5159-maslan'.

Observe folks , our resident hater cannot produce any evidence to back his claim he then runs off to another subtopic. Now its Quran4:89? Why don't you read the next verse , which gives an explanation. Quran4:90 (sahih international)

Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

Except those who
- take refuge
- having treaty
- do not want to fight
Therefore Quran4:89 is about the people hell bent on fighting the muslims. Ha ha , the verses are in simple english. Do you need me to put it thru google translate into Chinese Characters for you?

Aiyah , now its the so called hadith about 'if someone who changes his religion , kill him'? I thought this has been explained to you at least 3 times. You did not respond to any of the explanation but choose to go round in circles chasing your backside.

Again (and again) I will provide the explanation of this hadith by a non muslim

First of all, they point out that these are not the words of the Islamic prophet Muhammad to begin with; rather, these are the the words of a man named Ibn Abbas who was paraphrasing the words of the Islamic prophet. The full text of that particular Hadith is as follows:

    Some Zanadiqa were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying: Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire). I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle: Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 9, Book 84, Number 57)

If this was a paraphrase, what were the actual words of the Islamic prophet Muhammad? We find one such Hadith which says:

    “The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that there is no God but God and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: (1) In penalty for murder, (2) a married person who commits adultery and (3) the one who reverts from Islam (apostates) and leaves the community.” (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 12, Book ad-Diyat, Number 6878, p.209)

Based on this, reformists say that a person cannot be given capital punishment except for three offenses: (1) murder, (2) adultery, and (3) apostasy combined with “leav[ing] the community.” Such Muslims say that apostasy is not punished except for when it is combined with “leav[ing] the community,” which they say refers to high treason against the Islamic state. What is meant specifically by “leaving the community” is of leaving the community to join the enemy forces. To bolster this claim, reformists point to another similarly narrated Hadith, which reads:

    “The blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshiped but God and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: (1) a married person who commits adultery; he is to be stoned and (2) a man who went out fighting against God and His Messenger; he is to be killed or crucified or exiled from the land and (3) a man who murders another person; he is to be killed on account of it.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol. 4, Number 4353, p. 126)

In other words, we have the exact same three instances in which a person may be put to death: (1) murder, (2) adultery, and (3) “a man who went out fighting against God and His Messenger.” Reform-minded Muslims reason that since the Islamic prophet restricted capital punishment to three classes of people, the third instance must be referring to the same group. In other words “leav[ing] the community” refers to “a man who went out fighting against God and His Messenger.” Reform-minded Muslims tie these Hadiths to the following Quranic verse:

    “The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: this is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.” (Quran, 5:33)

Notice how similar the above verse is to the Hadith mentioned in Sunan Abu Dawud (above). The Hadith mentions the one “who went out fighting against God and His Messenger” whilst the Quran says “those who wage war against God and His Apostle,” and the punishment for such is also the same in both: “killed or crucified or exiled from the land.” Reformists point out that the opinion of the ultraconservative Muslims–that peaceful apostates are to be killed–does not jive with the above, since that would mean that a person is to be killed for other than the three reasons, even though the Islamic prophet limited it to only three reasons, not four.

And even if we say that the Hadiths do not limit capital punishment to only three reasons, argue reformists, the issue is that the two Hadiths (as found in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sunan Abu Dawood) both mention three sins–murder, adultery, and apostasy/waging war. It is abundantly clear then that the third sin (other than murder and adultery) is in reference to the same thing in both narrations, due to the congruency of the two Hadiths–which firmly establishes the linkage so the linking of apostasy to treason is firmly established by the congruency of the two Hadiths. This argument stands alone in itself and is not dependent on limiting capital punishment to three sins.

Can you to do this - Commit to memory the above link and explanation I provided before you vomit the same hadith over and over again.

LOL , looks like you are trying your best to appear ignorant over this issue despite the fact that you have been educated for more than 2x. Ha ha , is there anything between your 2 ears or its just vacumn? Oops .... how can I forget .... you claim to be a 'true professional and an expert in your field ....'

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

wkk5159

Bla bla bla......explains nothing but only reinforce the violent nature of Islamic faith.

This brethren of ISIS just show to the world what a true muslim he is.....

Yea right, trangressors and apostate must be killed according to Quran, need us to say further ???

Quran 4:89 "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

From Hadith;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Like i said ziillion times before; one cannot defends something which is indefendable.....

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 11-8-2015 05:03 PM
Bla bla bla......explains nothing but only reinforce the violent nature of Islamic faith.

This brethren of ISIS just show to the world what a true muslim he is.....

Yea right, trangressors and apostate must be killed according to Quran, need us to say further ???

Quran 4:89 "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

From Hadith;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Like i said ziillion times before; one cannot defends something which is indefendable.....

Ha ha ..... boring boring! You disappeared for a couple of days to scour the internet for answers to my counter argument. Since you cannot find it , aiyoo malu lah .... have to push thru just to state something.

Ok .... you claim the Islamic faith is violent. Where is your evidence? Show me where in the Quran that call for murder of transgressors and apostates. You stated Quran4:89. LOL , the very next verse provide the explanation. This shows that you do not even read what is infront of you.

As for the hadith , like I stated , commit to memory the explanation before vomiting your BS.

This is just too easy ..... pssst .... refer to my post#90

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

wkk5159

Bla bla bla......explains nothing but only reinforce the violent nature of Islamic faith.

Worse still, he is appealing to interpretation of Hadith by a non-muslim as per post 90#....

This brethren of ISIS just show to the world what a true true muslim he is, deceptive, violent yet dumb like his brethrens in the 1MDB scandal.....

Yea right, trangressors and apostate must be killed according to Quran, need us to say further ???

Quran 4:89 "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

From Hadith;

Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

No wonder lately they are so many muslims proclaim themselve as Quranist muslims and ashame of hadith as we can even witness in this forum.

Like i said ziillion times before; one cannot defends something which is indefendable.....

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 12-8-2015 09:31 AM
Bla bla bla......explains nothing but only reinforce the violent nature of Islamic faith.

Worse still, he is appealing to interpretation of Hadith by a non-muslim as per post 90#....

This brethren of ISIS just show to the world what a true true muslim he is, deceptive, violent yet dumb like his brethrens in the 1MDB scandal.....

Yea right, trangressors and apostate must be killed according to Quran, need us to say further ???

Quran 4:89 "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

From Hadith;

Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

No wonder lately they are so many muslims proclaim themselve as Quranist muslims and ashame of hadith as we can even witness in this forum.

Like i said ziillion times before; one cannot defends something which is indefendable.....

Boring boring! No answers from you but you continue to vomit the same refuted arguments over and over again. Confirmed your name could be Goh Mas Lan or 'wkk5159-maslan'.

The issues you need to respond to :
- Provide evidence that the Quran calls for murder of others
- respond to the explanation by the non muslim on the so called hadith ' if one change his religion then kill him'

Reference : post #90

This is interesting from you :

No wonder lately they are so many muslims proclaim themselve as Quranist muslims and ashame of hadith as we can even witness in this forum.

Therefore you agree that there is no call to murder or kill inoccent people in the Quran. Yes? Then why your BS about Islam calling to murder others? Respond lah to the so call hadith of killing apostates.

Observe folks , our Goh Mas Lan would never dare to go on head to head in his arguments ..... he knows he has nothing .....

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

wkk5159

Still Maslaning around(sam1528's brethren of same faith) without slim bit of reasoning and facts to refute my points, what can i say, one cannot defends what is indefensible....

Worse still now he is downplaying his Hadith and Sunnah by stuttering that Quran is less violent than Hadith, is he insinuating that Hadith is more violent than Quran ? Yes !
What is Hadith ? - Collection of quotes by vile prophet, Mu_ham_mad.

But as we all know, Quran contains violent verses as well, it is just that it is "less" violent because it didn't come out direct from Mu_Ham_Mad's mouth..

As these verses show;

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing....Quran 2:191


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33

But of cause, it is appalled by what Hadith has to say;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; Allah's Apostle said (Muhammad), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Any wonder why this brethren of Maslan enjoy shooting and banging his own head ?

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 13-8-2015 09:56 AM
Still Maslaning around(sam1528's brethren of same faith) without slim bit of reasoning and facts to refute my points, what can i say, one cannot defends what is indefensible....

Worse still now he is downplaying his Hadith and Sunnah by stuttering that Quran is less violent than Hadith, is he insinuating that Hadith is more violent than Quran ? Yes !
What is Hadith ? - Collection of quotes by vile prophet, Mu_ham_mad.

But as we all know, Quran contains violent verses as well, it is just that it is "less" violent because it didn't come out direct from Mu_Ham_Mad's mouth..

As these verses show;

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing....Quran 2:191


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33

But of cause, it is appalled by what Hadith has to say;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; Allah's Apostle said (Muhammad), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Any wonder why this brethren of Maslan enjoy shooting and banging his own head ?

So speaketh our resident hater in Goh Mas Lan or better known as 'wkk5159-maslan' or affectionately known as 'the bull shitter'.

Observe folks - round and round he goes going from Quran4:89 to Quran2:191 to Quran5:33 and back again quoting verses out of context. He thinks he is mocking but not knowing that he is making a fool of himself ..... aiyah , whats new ..... Goh Mas Lan what .. a person who claim to be a true professional and an expert in his own field ...

LOL , our resident hater in 'wkk5159-maslan' keep on harping on Hadith Bukhari 52:260 and 84:57 but has so far failed to respond to a brilliantly written refutation by a non muslim with regards to these hadiths.

The best part , 'wkk5159-maslan' believes wholeheartedly that rhetorics is data and evidence. When asked for evidence our Goh Mas Lan repeat the same refuted arguments over and over again.

Now he is trying to cover up his screwup as he indirectly admitted that in the Quran there is no such thing as killing of apostates or murder , I requote again from Goh Mas Lan's post#93

No wonder lately they are so many muslims proclaim themselve as Quranist muslims and ashame of hadith as we can even witness in this forum.

Ha ha , too bad .... you have lost and lost big time.

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

I have been trying to look for these violent verses in the Quran but could not find them :

    13:6 If–your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul–entice you secretly, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods,” which you have not known–not you, nor your fathers;

    13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, near to you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

    13:8 You shall not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him:

    13:9 But you must surely kill him; your hand must be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

    13:10 And you must stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the LORD your God.

Well, that’s pretty damning evidence right there. That sounds a lot like “honor” killing: “If your brother…or your son or your daughter….entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and worship other gods’…You must kill him…you must stone him with stones, that he die.” Well, if that’s in the Quran, then we better ban all Muslim immigration to America!

But before we call Homeland Security, I hope you don’t mind if I check the Quran to verify if those verses exist.

[Flipping through pages of Quran]

Hmmm, can’t seem to find it.

Oh wait, *smacks forehead*, I remember now where those verses are from. Ahh yes, they are from the Bible (Deuteronomy, 13:6-10). There are of course many other Biblical verses in the same vein, such as 2 Chronicles 15:13 which reads:  “All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.”

Oopsie doopsie!

wkk5159

Still Maslaning around(sam1528's brethren of same faith) without slim bit of reasoning and facts to refute my points, what can i say, one cannot defends what is indefensible....

Worse still now he is downplaying his Hadith and Sunnah by stuttering that Quran is less violent than Hadith, is he insinuating that Hadith is more violent than Quran ? Yes !
What is Hadith ? - Collection of quotes by vile prophet, Mu_ham_mad.

But as we all know, Quran contains violent verses as well, it is just that it is "less" violent because it didn't come out directly from Mu_Ham_Mad's mouth..

As these verses show;

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing....Quran 2:191


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33

But of cause, it is appalled by what Hadith has to say;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; Allah's Apostle said (Muhammad), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Any wonder why this brethren of Maslan enjoy shooting and banging his own head ?

sam1528

wkk5159 replied at 14-8-2015 12:02 PM
Still Maslaning around(sam1528's brethren of same faith) without slim bit of reasoning and facts to refute my points, what can i say, one cannot defends what is indefensible....

Worse still now he is downplaying his Hadith and Sunnah by stuttering that Quran is less violent than Hadith, is he insinuating that Hadith is more violent than Quran ? Yes !
What is Hadith ? - Collection of quotes by vile prophet, Mu_ham_mad.

But as we all know, Quran contains violent verses as well, it is just that it is "less" violent because it didn't come out directly from Mu_Ham_Mad's mouth..

As these verses show;

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing....Quran 2:191


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33

But of cause, it is appalled by what Hadith has to say;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; Allah's Apostle said (Muhammad), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Any wonder why this brethren of Maslan enjoy shooting and banging his own head ?

LOL , told you guys. I have been proven right again and again and again.

This is how our resident hater Goh Mas Lan or 'wkk5159-maslan' argue.
- he copy paste verses from hate sites
- when refuted he runs off to other verses , when refuted again he runs off to the Hadiths
- not once did he stand his ground and argue with facts and evidence

Being evidence of his roundabout argument , in his post#93 its is Quran4:89 , in his post#95 it is Quran2:191 and Quran5:33. Our Goh Mas Lan or 'wkk5159-maslan' would then go roundabout in these 3 verses but ignore the counter arguments. Wait wait wait .... he indirectly admitted that in the Quran there is no such thing as killing of apostates or murder.

Next comes the hadiths which he claims to kill apostates. When confronted with a brilliant piece of counter argument from a non muslim , no answer from our resident hater in Goh Mas Lan or 'wkk5159-maslan'. Scared to answer maaa ...

It appears that Goh Mas Lan or 'wkk5159-maslan' share the same traits like 'truth.8'. When confronted with data , facts and evidence , they ignore everything but repeat their diatribe over and over. Ha ha  , as if it becomes the truth.

Observe folks , when the bible has been introduced confirming the fact to kill apostates , Goh Mas Lan or 'wkk5159-maslan' run for his dear life ... so scared to respond.

13:6 If–your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul–entice you secretly, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods,” which you have not known–not you, nor your fathers;

    13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, near to you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

    13:8 You shall not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him:

    13:9 But you must surely kill him; your hand must be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

    13:10 And you must stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the LORD your God.

Well, that’s pretty damning evidence right there. That sounds a lot like “honor” killing: “If your brother…or your son or your daughter….entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and worship other gods’…You must kill him…you must stone him with stones, that he die.” Well, if that’s in the Quran, then we better ban all Muslim immigration to America!

But before we call Homeland Security, I hope you don’t mind if I check the Quran to verify if those verses exist.

[Flipping through pages of Quran]

Hmmm, can’t seem to find it.

Oh wait, *smacks forehead*, I remember now where those verses are from. Ahh yes, they are from the Bible (Deuteronomy, 13:6-10). There are of course many other Biblical verses in the same vein, such as 2 Chronicles 15:13 which reads:  “All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.”

Oopsie doopsie!

Ha ha , too bad .... you have lost and lost big time.

Ha ha , I say again :  it doesn't take much for you to shoot yourself in your head

wkk5159

Not copycat work like Maslanic ustazy sam1528 but genuine brilliant work of truth defender wkk5159....

Since non of the points i put forward are clarified and refuted(doubt there are any...), it is only natural to repeat the same unanswered post....

Still Maslaning around(sam1528's brethren of same faith) without slim bit of reasoning and facts to refute my points, what can i say, one cannot defends what is indefensible....

Worse still now he is downplaying his Hadith and Sunnah by stuttering that Quran is less violent than Hadith, is he insinuating that Hadith is more violent than Quran ? Yes !
What is Hadith ? - Collection of quotes by vile prophet, Mu_ham_mad.

But as we all know, Quran contains violent verses as well, it is just that it is "less" violent because it didn't come out directly from Mu_Ham_Mad's mouth..

As these verses show;

"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing....Quran 2:191


"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran 5:33

But of cause, it is appalled by what Hadith has to say;
Bukhari 52:260 The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.

Bukhari 84:57; Allah's Apostle said (Muhammad), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Any wonder why this brethren of Maslan enjoy shooting and banging his own head ?

wkk5159

This Maslanic ustazy like usual appeals to dubious website hosted by deceptive taqiyative muslim....

Her favourite, www.loonwatch.com, a website hosted by fanatic muslim disguise as moderate muslims aiming at bleaching the indefensible image of Islam...

Warning - Loonwatch the Deceptive Muslim Web Site
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T5JOLCIH91OI21OSC