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Sephiroth posted on 23-6-2014 09:33 PM 
Soul is primodial energy - existed in the energy sphere which was the origin of the Universe befor ...
Ohh....
very parallel with dhamma. Just u use the word soul.
here buddha use anattq
For the enrgy or mind, it is use nimitta
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wei_loon5063 posted on 22-6-2014 10:11 AM
soalan ni ditujukan kepada saya?
sebelum saya mula,
Sorry, confuse sket. 
- reincarnation, Hinduism
- re-birth, Buddhism
Ok, clear.
Patut soalan diajukan kpd madam...
bole x @Sephiroth ? 
buddha cakap: setiap detik anda dilahirkan, reput dan mati
bermaksud. andaikan definisi anda bahawa anda umur 40, untuk mencapai umur 41, umur 40 yg anda mesti reput(old age) dan mati untk melahirkan diri umur 41 yg anda
Tp memori tu kekal, dan boleh dicapai semula wlpn sudah mati
dan ada pn kajian berkenaan tulang sulbi (ekor) di mana data insan secara genetic dipetakan
yg bg saya, 'ingatan' sbg cerapan darah terhadap sistem saraf dan ia berpusat di jantung ketika hayatnya
Saya x pasti sama ada reincarnation/re-birth dpt melenyapkan memori?
buddha: manusia cipta utara, selatan timur baran dan percaya ianya betul.
REBIRTH do not exist vertical ke langit. atau mendatar. kelangit, lepastu? ke alam semesta? dr research sains, alam semesta ni 99.999% kosong. dan mata manusia dll hanya dapat mentafsir sedikit shj.
Cth: Anjakan paradigma...
- ini adalah sesuatu kenaikan (darjat) dan bkn perubahan mendatar
- sama ada ianya hasil drpd bertambahnya pengetahuan, pengajaran drpd pengalaman ataupn perkhabaran drpd ilham
Saya x kata yg manusia bole terangkat ke langit lalu terbang tegak ke atas
cuma kemuliaan dirinya semakin dekat disisi Tuhan Pencipta Alam
bila manusia mati. badan akan reput dan jadi makanan untuk serangga atau binatang. dan energy yg terkandung dlm tu tak akan hilang. ia akan jadi tenaga untuk binatang tu lagi. dan seterusnya. sama macam minda. bila mati. minda tak akan hilang. ia akan mengambil bentuk berlainan.
Lg satu wording yg susah, 'minda'/mind/intelek/pemahaman/akal (arabic)
- sifatnya sbg sensor kpd awareness/conciousness
- melalui proses berfikir, menghayati/rasai, memahami
- respondennya adalah jantung-hati
- yg open-minded pasti open-hearted (bukan loose/absent-minded)
Self/jiwa tu sendiri adalah watak/ego drpd pembentukan minda
Self/jiwa juga memutuskan/buat keputusan berdasarkan minda
Maka, yg turun-naik itu self/jiwa
dgn mindanya sbg metod/understanding
dan jantung-hati sbg foundation/kendera
- beruntung lah mereka yg membersihkan hatinya
Adakah sama memori dgn minda? X kan? 
mental. nak senang faham. bayangkan sepeti komputer.
bodily tu hardware ; spiritually(mental factor) tu software. bila anda masuk programme yg hebat, anda memerlukan hardware yg hebat. bila kena reboot/upgrade, automatic software akan bergabung dengan hardware yg setaraf
Sorry, saya masih menCARI jwp
dan susah utk menerima jwp secara analogi moden...
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Sephiroth posted on 22-6-2014 12:17 PM
No, the soul do not bond with the Self (the Mind).
The Mind is created upon birth and dies with ... No, the soul do not bond with the Self (the Mind).
The Mind is created upon birth and dies with the physical body.
The Mind experience fear, tranquility, pain, pleasure, happiness, sadness and other emotions.
The Mind experience many things but all of them are temporary only.
The bond between Soul and the Mind are broken once death occurs.
No? Why not?
I mySELF has a body and soul/spirit - creation of perfection i.e. a life human being
- if this is not bonding, do explain how it's a separate being?
I do not agree with your definition of the 'SELF' as the 'mind'
- only you (your SELF) can control yourself, but anyone(self) can control/sync minds. Right?
Thus, only the memory can describe one SELF
and what you do is written as deeds - by God's witness i.e. the angels
from my understanding, this is why it is unique as individual soul/spirit
Death separates body and soul/spirit but the memory remains in both
- returned to God with the book of deeds
- stayed on earth within the loins either burried/dust/ash/etc.
The mind is not a creation, but it is made/produced from the faculty of the heart.
That is why babies were born unaware of things and only concious of the feelings if their caretaker
What i'm trying to be clear is...
if reincarnation is a cycle of an earthly life
and the earth is the only being that live and not yet die
plus the spirit is an immortal entity from the Creator...
So, only the 'Chosen One' will know that he/she is reincarnated
- and his/her SELF has been lift up/raised to the level of 'immitating the spirit' or eternally bonded
The decree:
And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive
He has chosen you
and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion
it is the cult of your father Abraham
It is He Who has named you Muslims
both before and in this
that the Messenger may be a witness for you
and ye be witnesses for mankind!
So establish regular Prayer
give regular Charity
and hold fast to Allah.
He is your Protector
the Best to protect
and the Best to help!
(QS 22:78)
The spirit testifies and so do the SELF, the decree:
When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam their descendants
and made them testify concerning themselves
"Am I not your Lord?"
They said: "Yea! We do testify!"
lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment
"Of this we were never mindful"
(QS 7:172)
Ofkos, mankind do have minds
but less thought on rememberance of these reminders...
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I know it is hard to have agreements in terms of faith/beliefs
but at least we can agree on the terms/words which already clearly defined
- how you guys explain it, ofkos depends la...no argue.
Intellects can sync, but ego susah maa... |
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by Dzulqarnain
Sorry, confuse sket.
- reincarnation, Hinduism
- re-birth, Buddhism
Ok, clear.
Tak perlu konfuse sangat. Hinduism percayai mengenai Roh (Soul) jadi yg reincarnate adalah roh. Buddhism tak percayai akan Roh tetapi hanya minda (yg wujud kerana tubuh badan) jadi setiap kali seseorang itu hidup, ianya adalah akibat attachment emotion yg wujud sebelumnya (oleh seseorang yg hidup sebelum anda). Bagi Buddhism, tak ada yg wujud selepas mati.
Tp memori tu kekal, dan boleh dicapai semula wlpn sudah mati
dan ada pn kajian berkenaan tulang sulbi (ekor) di mana data insan secara genetic dipetakan
yg bg saya, 'ingatan' sbg cerapan darah terhadap sistem saraf dan ia berpusat di jantung ketika hayatnya
Memang manusia mampu mengingati kembali hayat2nya yg lepas. Kamu pernah tengok tak budak2 kampung main lastik, buat khemah serta anak panah dan lembing dari kayu dan buluh? Dari mana datangnya ilmu ini yg ditunjjukan oleh kanak2 ini? Genetik memory akan sesuatu kehidupan yg lampau di mana manusia hidup sbg hunter-gatherers.
Jadi manusia mampu mengingati kehidupan yg lampau walaupun secara tidak langsung kerana genetik dia. Pada masa yg sama, setengah manusia yg mengawal serta mendisplinkan mindanya mampu mencapai memori kehidupannya yg lampau dari rohnya sendiri. Gautama Buddha sbg contohnya mampu mengetahui semua kehidupan yg sebelumnya.
Apa yg Gautama Buddha katakan bahawa anda dilahirkan, mati dan reput itu bukan salah. Yang salah hanyalah perspeksi setengah kaum Buddha je. Memang benar manusia itu dilahirkan setiap saat, hidup dan mati juga. Kulit manusia, cell dlm badan, tissue dan sum2 tulang semuanya diperbarui setiap masa. Boleh dikatakan bahawa manusia mati dan hidup balik dalam masa 3 - 6 bulan dalam sepanjang hayatnya.
Cth: Anjakan paradigma...
- ini adalah sesuatu kenaikan (darjat) dan bkn perubahan mendatar
- sama ada ianya hasil drpd bertambahnya pengetahuan, pengajaran drpd pengalaman ataupn perkhabaran drpd ilham
kamu kena ingat, keadaan sesuatu agama itu wujud bergantung kpd kemampuan kaum yg diberikan ilmu itu juga. Tak guna Tuhan bagikan ilmu Quantum Physics kpd sekumpulan manusia yg mengembala lembu, kerbau dan unta. Dan tak berguna juga Tuhan menberikan ilmu macam mana nak mengembala lembu, kerbau dan unta kpd sekumpulan manusia yg pandai dlm bab ilmu Sains dan teknology.
Jadi apa yg Gautama Buddha katakan adalah bergantung kpd manusia pada masa itu juga. Apa yg Gautama Buddha katakan itu boleh dikatakan setara dgn ilmu Clinical Psychology modern. Jadi bila Gautama Buddha mengatakan sedemikian, kamu kena fikirkan bahawa Beliau bukannya Tuhan dan hanya boleh mengeluarkan kata2 yg berunsurkan fakta. Jadi kalau beliau mengeluarkan fakta2 berunsur Spiritualism dan tidak mampu menbuktikannya, tak berguna juga apa yg beliau katakan itu.
Adakah sama memori dgn minda? X kan?
Tidak. Memori hanyalah residue dari emosi sesuatu makluk. Minda itu software yg menguruskan gross matter yg digelar badan.
Sorry, saya masih menCARI jwp
dan susah utk menerima jwp secara analogi moden...
Analogi traditional lebih mengelirukan dan boleh bawa kpd salahfaham dalam apa yg cuba disampaikan. Lagipun Alam Semesta ini serta badan manusia berfungsi spt mesin juga. Jadi analogi moden memang setara dgn apa yg cuba disampaikan ini. |
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by Dzulqarnain
No? Why not?
I mySELF has a body and soul/spirit - creation of perfection i.e. a life human being
- if this is not bonding, do explain how it's a separate being?
What do you mean why not? Do you ask why the sky is blue? Why the Sun is fiery? Or why the water is wet?
I do not agree with your definition of the 'SELF' as the 'mind'
- only you (your SELF) can control yourself, but anyone(self) can control/sync minds. Right?
I really don't care you agree or not. It is irrelevant. Just because you don't agree, that doesn't mean that facts will change to fit your agreement. 
Yes, a person can control another person's mind. That is how War get started. When a single person able to control the mind of the weak-minded human, to the point that the weak-minded could go and commit evil act, believing that he serving a greater good. |
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Dzulqarnain posted on 23-6-2014 11:51 PM
Sorry, confuse sket.
- reincarnation, Hinduism
- re-birth, Buddhism
Tp memori tu kekal, dan boleh dicapai semula wlpn sudah mati
dan ada pn kajian berkenaan tulang sulbi (ekor) di mana data insan secara genetic dipetakan
yg bg saya, 'ingatan' sbg cerapan darah terhadap sistem saraf dan ia berpusat di jantung ketika hayatnya
Saya x pasti sama ada reincarnation/re-birth dpt melenyapkan memori?
ia tak lenyapkan. cuma di sub linial atau sub conscious. malah, aad meditasi yg diajar untuk mengugkit past life. dan dapat jelas kan kenapa kau bersikap seperti hari ini. cth: kenapa kembar yg besar di rahim mak sama, nutrisi sama, tumbesaran sama. tapi perangai dan pemikiran berbeza.
google "past life regression"
Cth: Anjakan paradigma...
- ini adalah sesuatu kenaikan (darjat) dan bkn perubahan mendatar
- sama ada ianya hasil drpd bertambahnya pengetahuan, pengajaran drpd pengalaman ataupn perkhabaran drpd ilham
Saya x kata yg manusia bole terangkat ke langit lalu terbang tegak ke atas
cuma kemuliaan dirinya semakin dekat disisi Tuhan Pencipta Alam
kalau you study quantum mechanics, ia menunjukkan bahawa energy/photon hilang ke dimensi lain sebeum kembali ke dimensi ini.....
Lg satu wording yg susah, 'minda'/mind/intelek/pemahaman/akal (arabic)
- sifatnya sbg sensor kpd awareness/conciousness
- melalui proses berfikir, menghayati/rasai, memahami
- respondennya adalah jantung-hati
- yg open-minded pasti open-hearted (bukan loose/absent-minded)
buddha cakap 3 jenis minda
citta - mind(luminous mind, kalau anda meditate, anda akan jumpa ni)
vinana - kesadaran
mano - intelek (pemikiran, minda fikir,plan masa depan, becoming jadi dr sini)
ada 54 jenis perasaan....
a) suka ; duka ; tak suka, tak duka(neutral)
b) tiga perasaan basic(a) berlandaskan 5panda incara & 1 minda - 6 bases
c) perasaan yg berlaku di masa silam ; kini ; masa depan
jadi, (a) x (b) x (c) adalah 54 jenis perasaan di diri kita....
Self/jiwa tu sendiri adalah watak/ego drpd pembentukan minda
Self/jiwa juga memutuskan/buat keputusan berdasarkan minda
self itu adalah sekadar portrait drpd kau yg lampau. cth: tanpa memori, tanpa latar belakang, siapa anda? kau tak dapat jawab soalan ni. apa yg kau mungkin jawab SAYA cuma ungkapan pengalaman/latar belakang, tapi tak dapat jelas siapa anda... ni lah doktrine buddhism yg paling dalam di panggil "anatta" non-self
Maka, yg turun-naik itu self/jiwa
dgn mindanya sbg metod/understanding
dan jantung-hati sbg foundation/kendera
- beruntung lah mereka yg membersihkan hatinya
consciousness.... becoming.
anak murid buddha bernama ananda bertanya: buddha, orang selalu cakap becoming(menjadi) becoming.. apa itu becoming??
buddha cakap:
karma sebagai padang(pengalaman/cause/latar belakang/aski/intention/will power anda sebagai tapak)
kesadaran sebagai biji (kesadaran yg membentuk anda BERDASARKAN masa lampau anda)
ketamakan/khendak/nafsu sebagai kelembapan (craving sebagai pendorong untuk wujud)
so,
kesadaran di tutupi kejahilan(jahil drpd kebenaran); di rantai oleh nafsu, maka kesadaran berbuah/membesar mengikut result drpd kamma(intention)
cth:
anda sedar(seed/biji) dan karma(padang) sebagai muslim(segala yg berlaku kpd anda dulu(external/internal yg membentuk anda sebagai anda sekarang-samada baca quran/ke masjid/sekolah etc. semua di lakukan dgn intention dan intention tu adalah karma. dan ni membentuk anda sekarang. dan anda ada nafsu/kehendak/keinginan nak ke surga/jumpa allah/sembahyang etc dan craving(kehendak ini) membentuk karma(intention) yg baru untuk membawa anda ke masa depan untuk becoming anda di masa depan. dan anda dibelengui kejahilal(realiti) dan dirantai oleh kehendak. sebab tu becoming terjadi....
Adakah sama memori dgn minda? X kan?
tak... memori tu hanyalah sisa intention/minda. cth: ombak adalah result drpd gempa bumi atau tekanan air laut atau angin.
jadi, anda boleh melihat balik masa untuk tengok masa lampau.
so, ni yg buddha maksudkan.
anda tidak wujud dan juga tidak tak wujud
you do not exist NEITHER do you exist.
macam cawan, cawan tak wujud sebagai cawan, cawan wujud sebab akibat drpd tanah liat,
tanah liat wujud akibat reputan tanaman/bangkai tambah tekanan bumi
ombak tidak wujud dengan ombak, ia wujud dengan tekanan air berbeza
minda tu macam matahari, memori tu macam cahaya.
kita tak mampu tengok matahari tanpa cahaya. dan cahaya tu bukan matahari. tapi cahaya tu akibat drpd matahari.
anda boleh tengok video ini untuk kenal minda anda
video ini dalam bahasa melayu(indon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdKV7UCkjo
Last edited by wei_loon5063 on 24-6-2014 05:49 PM
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Sephiroth posted on 24-6-2014 10:16 AM
by Dzulqarnain
in addition...
kalau manusia tak ada memori badan/minda.....
macam mana manusia
1) berkembang di rahim?
2) blajar bernafas masa lahir
3) belajar jantung berdengup
dll
semua ni adalah residue memori lampau yg asyik menjadi menjadi yg membentuk apa yg kami sekarang
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by wei_loon5063
semua ni adalah residue memori lampau yg asyik menjadi menjadi yg membentuk apa yg kami sekarang
Ianya juga akan menbentuk bentuk manusia yg akan datang juga. Jangan asyik fikir apa yg kita lakukan kini hanya akan menbawa kesan sekarang shj.
Minggu lalu saya ada baca satu artikel dlm surat khabar Bacaria (apa yg ria sangat, tak tahu lah). Ianya mengenai seorang kanak2 yg dilahirkan dgn kecacatan penglihatan. Tak cukup itu, kanak2 itu juga menpunyai sakit jantung dan penyakit sawan.
Pernah tertanya tak kenapa ini terjadi? Ini kerana dosa ibu bapa mereka tak pernah lesap spt apa yg mereka fikirkan (akan terjadi bila mereka berdoa), Mereka melakukan pelbagai benda yg haram (termasuk seks di luar nikah, menipu, mencuri dan lain2) dan kemudian menganggap bahawa hanya dgn bersembahyang, dosa mereka akan lesap.
Bukan mereka shj. Banyak juga golongan Cina yg kaya raya serta kaum India yg suka berpoya2 dan minum arak masa muda2 yg menpunyai kanak2 sedemikian (ataupun kanak2 yg memang kurang cerdik). Ini kerana tindakan mereka menpunyai kesan terhadap genetik mereka yg kemudian disebarkan kpd generaso yg akan datang sehingga menyebabkan kanak2 yg tidak berdosa kena tanggung akibat ibu bapa mereka.
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Sephiroth posted on 24-6-2014 07:46 PM
by wei_loon5063
Sains mene,ui bahawa aging adalah result drpd error in DNA. Dan result DNA reault drpd mental kita.
cth.
Bila gembira, seluruh badan macam terbang
bila marah, badan membara
bila takut atau cemas, perut berpusing
dan sebagainya....
sama seperti action yg menentukan masa depan kita
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Dzulqarnain posted on 26-6-2014 02:59 AM
Model quantum guna quantum vacuum (bounded)
dan photon bergerak drpd vacuum ke vacuum
- bkn hi ...
Model quantum guna quantum vacuum (bounded)
dan photon bergerak drpd vacuum ke vacuum
- bkn hilang tp visibility not observable
Setuju, "hilang" tu adalah perkatan manusia guna untuk label brg yg dia tak nampak. macam ni. org tak faham apa rebirth, dia tak ngaku tak faham, dia cakap tak logik.
Bolehkah kamu terima assumption yg outer space (the universe) is totally vacuum
meaning, aether does not exist...?
apa itu existance?
Tp, akan bertambah tahap keyakinannya bila
semakin kita mendalami pengetahuan
semakin byk yg kita tak tahu
- semakin kerdil kewujudan kita dlm alam semesta umpama tiada
sebab tu kata, apa kah kita sebagai sebiji pasir digurun? |
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wei_loon5063 posted on 26-6-2014 08:59 AM Setuju, "hilang" tu adalah perkatan manusia guna untuk label brg yg dia tak nampak. macam ni. org tak faham apa rebirth, dia tak ngaku tak faham, dia cakap tak logik.
That's why, ikut school of thoughts
naming, labeling, branding...sebenarnya bawa konsep/kefahaman berbeza
- saya rasa Christians pn ada 'regeneration' mcm tu, kna tanya @Truth.8
Sebahagian drpd penciptaan, ada/wujud
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days
and is moreover firmly established on the Throne.
He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it
what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it.
And He is with you wheresoever ye may be.
And Allah sees well all that ye do.
(QS 57:4) sebab tu kata, apa kah kita sebagai sebiji pasir digurun?
Ada satu misal yg lbh luas...
And if all the trees on earth were pens
and the ocean (were ink),
with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply),
yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing)
for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom. (QS 31:27)
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by Dzulqarnain
Tak lah.
Maksud saya, lbh baik guna analogi makhluk2/alam ciptaan Tuhan
Bknnya anologi benda yg dibuat manusia wlpn ianya made in Amireka
Tak setujua. Kalau nak memahami Spiritualism dari segi Sains dan Teknology, anda kena mengunakan analogi moden. Kenapa kamu nak mengunakan analgi makluk ghaib? Memang tak ada kepercayaan kpd Tuhan ke? Kerana setahu aku, hanya atheists je takut nak gunakan analogi moden utk menbincangkan Spiritulism. 
Ofkos, every creation bonded by a decree/law
and there's always a reason for the change/shift of
the color of the sky, the heat of the sun and dampness
you can't reason with ego (SELF)...
And Creation's laws states that Body and Soul do not combine. Just like your clothes do not combine with your flesh but still draw warm of your body as its own. |
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Dzulqarnain posted on 26-6-2014 12:24 PM
That's why, ikut school of thoughts
naming, labeling, branding...sebenarnya bawa konsep/kefaham ...
quran n bible mentioned about creation of earth...
but the creation of universe? creation of cosmos??
not mentioned
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Sephiroth posted on 26-6-2014 12:39 PM
by Dzulqarnain
By Sephiroth
Tak setujua. Kalau nak memahami Spiritualism dari segi Sains dan Teknology, anda kena mengunakan analogi moden. Kenapa kamu nak mengunakan analgi makluk ghaib? Memang tak ada kepercayaan kpd Tuhan ke? Kerana setahu aku, hanya atheists je takut nak gunakan analogi moden utk menbincangkan Spiritulism.
Terpulang masing2.
Bg saya,
Tuhan cipta tumbuhan tanpa salah-silap
manusia design software tanpa sedar ada salah-silap
- dua2 ada bugs, satu agen pendebungaan, satu lg agen virus...
Kalaupun nak jelaskan perjalanan spiritual
bole juga ambil komponen asas teknologi
i.e. dulu haba menjalar dlm jalur tembaga, hari ini cahaya dlm jalur fibre (optic)
And Creation's laws states that Body and Soul do not combine. Just like your clothes do not combine with your flesh but still draw warm of your body as its own.
Ofkos not, bonding is not to combine both the two to one
- it is the 'link' in between, which is nearest for the self personifying the spirit
e.g.
If the spirit iluminates your world and your SELF - Guiding light
then, your SELF also ilmuninates your world - guided light
So, how you see the world now enlightened you wider
can be as wide as the universe...
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wei_loon5063 posted on 26-6-2014 02:20 PM
quran n bible mentioned about creation of earth...
but the creation of universe? creation of co ... quran n bible mentioned about creation of earth...
but the creation of universe? creation of cosmos??
not mentioned
Earth is a part of the universe plus the seven heavens (langit2)
So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days
and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.
And We adorned the lower heaven with lights (stars)
and (provided it) with guard.
Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
(QS 41:12)
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Dzulqarnain posted on 26-6-2014 04:47 PM
Earth is a part of the universe plus the seven heavens (langit2)
question
the location of heaven? beyond the cosmos? or OUTSIDE cosmos as described in other member here.
IF there are only seven heaven, and how do you explain other 80,000,000,000,000 galaxies in the "known" universe.
in deep deep meditation, buddha discover this cosmos and stumple other celestial beings.... and even monks can reach this level. even us can.
this is famous "brahmajala sutta"
1. Eternalism (Sassatavāda): Views 1–4[size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]30.[/url] "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are eternalists, and who on four grounds proclaim the self and the world to be eternal. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views? [size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]31.[/url] "In the first case, bhikkhus, some recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated, [purified, clarified, unblemished, devoid of corruptions],[5] he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects) one birth, two, three, four, or five births; ten, twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty births; a hundred, a thousand, or a hundred thousand births; many hundreds of births, many thousands of births, many hundreds of thousands of births. (He recalls 'Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.' Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details. [size=14.399999618530273px]"He speaks thus: 'The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself. What is the reason? Because I, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attain to such a degree of mental concentration that with my mind thus concentrated, I recollect my numerous past lives in their modes and their details. For this reason I know this: the self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself.' [size=14.399999618530273px]"This, bhikkhus, is the first case. [size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]32.[/url] "In the second case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal? [size=14.399999618530273px]"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects his past lives throughout) one aeon of world-contraction and expansion, throughout two, three, four, five, or ten aeons of world-contraction and expansion.[6] (He recalls 'Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.' Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details. [size=14.399999618530273px]"He speaks thus: 'The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself. What is the reason?" [size=14.399999618530273px](The remainder is exactly the same as [size=14.399999618530273px]§31 except for the extent of time recollected.) [size=14.399999618530273px]"This, bhikkhus, is the second case. [size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]33.[/url] "In the third case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal? [size=14.399999618530273px]"Herein, bhikkhus, some recluse or brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects his past lives throughout) ten aeons of world-contraction and expansion, throughout twenty, thirty, or forty aeons of world-contraction and expansion... (As above)... Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details. [size=14.399999618530273px]"He speaks thus: 'The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself. What is the reason? [size=14.399999618530273px](As in [size=14.399999618530273px]§31 except for the extent of time.) "This, bhikkhus, is the third case. [size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]34.[/url] "In the fourth case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal? [size=14.399999618530273px]"Herein, bhikkhus, some recluse or brahmin is a rationalist, an investigator. He declares his view — hammered out by reason, deduced from his investigations, following his own flight of thought — thus: "The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself.' [size=14.399999618530273px]"This, bhikkhus, is the fourth case. [size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]35.[/url] "It is on these four grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins who are eternalists proclaim the self and the world to be eternal. Whatever recluses and brahmins there may be who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal, all of them do so on these four grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none. [size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]36.[/url] "This, bhikkhus, the Tathāgata understands. And he understands: 'These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.' He understands as well what transcends this, yet even that understanding he does not misapprehend. And because he is free from misapprehension, he has realized within himself the state of perfect peace. Having understood as they really are the origin and the passing away of feelings, their satisfaction, their unsatisfactoriness, and the escape from them, the Tathāgata, bhikkhus, is emancipated through non-clinging. [size=14.399999618530273px][size=12.800000190734863px][url=]37.[/url] "These are those dhammas, bhikkhus, that are deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand, peaceful and sublime, beyond the sphere of reasoning, subtle, comprehensible only to the wise, which the Tathāgata, having realized for himself with direct knowledge, propounds to others; and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tathāgata in accordance with reality would speak.
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wei_loon5063 posted on 26-6-2014 05:07 PM
question
the location of heaven? beyond the cosmos? or OUTSIDE cosmos as described in other mem ... question
the location of heaven? beyond the cosmos? or OUTSIDE cosmos as described in other member here.
IF there are only seven heaven, and how do you explain other 80,000,000,000,000 galaxies in the "known" universe.
in deep deep meditation, buddha discover this cosmos and stumple other celestial beings.... and even monks can reach this level. even us can.
this is famous "brahmajala sutta"
Cosmos is defined as the created universe, briefly:
- consist of both known universe and unknown universe
- every observable celestial beings are at the lower heaven
Easier to understand when you see it as geocentrical
That is why i ask you guys, which one 'travels' when you meditate?
- is it the self or
- the soul/spirit or
- body and soul
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Post time 23-6-2014 09:37 PM
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