[MERGED]--Room inside Kaba is a forbidden.Why? - Pict page 43

Truth.8

1719# Truth.8

well, you are the type which is shameless.

to you, maybe you're not failing, but to us, you've failed miserably.

you haven't presented ONE point from 2002.

worst, you LIED  ...
gunblade712 Post at 6-9-2009 12:15

shameless or not shamless i am exist here since 2002

are u saying muslims are shamelss and left because of my heat????

well, i guess so

gunblade712

shameless or not shamless i am exist here since 2002

are u saying muslims are shamelss and left because of my heat????

well, i guess so
Truth.8 Post at 6-9-2009 15:13

heheheh.. nope..

I am saying that YOU are SHAMELESS, TAKDE MARUAH PUNYA ORANG....

... coz you have the guts to be here and mocked us even though it is proven that YOU LIED TO YOUR OWN "GOD"..

what kind of creature is this? even the animals don't have the guts to lie to God...

wlio_snr

why Jesus run away? u have read in the Bible in open heart

now, who u trust? a man running away from romans or a man age of 50+++ marrying underage girl???
Truth.8 Post at 6-9-2009 11:34

your fake god scared of roman soldier

and also scared of me


khar    khar    khar

mindpropeller

1703# gunblade712

That is why I am asking you. HOW do you perform your solat?

and how exactly does the Salafussoleh performed their religious duty, sir?

If, by religious rituals, you mean "ibadah" , then there are endlesslists of ibadah that Muhammad s.a.w. do in corresponding to the Quran.One of it is "solat" . The Quran tells you that solat is obligated untoyou. Now how exactly do you perform your solat?

Well sir, I told you that I always try to do my "solat" the best I can. There is no need for you to know my "solat". That is none of your business. Btw, I don't have any idea who Salafussoleh is.

and tell me, what is the difference between a "messenger" and a "teacher" ?

if I follow what I've understood, a messenger only convey the message,whereas a teacher conveyed the knowledge AND explain to thedisciples/pupils of the knowledge, am I right?

(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought. (An-Nahl : 44)

The role of Muhamad was basically to convey the Book to the people. If you think he taught more than what was revealed to him, try understand what God tells us through the verses below.

"And they say: Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say: The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner. Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe." – 29:50-51

Do not move your tongue to hasten this revelation. We are in charge of putting them together into the Reading (the Quran).Once We recite it, you shall follow this Reading.Then it is We who will explain it. 75:16-18

When Allah s.w.t. said "thou" (or "you" in a modern English), who is Allah referring to here, brother mp?

Of course, Muhamad the aspostle.

Gosh, now I do not know where do you stand. First you seemed to have declined the idea that we are to facethe Ka'abah/MasjidilHaram when we are performing our solat, now it seems you are agreeing with us. (Judging from the bold quoted wording of yours). Did I misunderstood your statement, brother?

Agreeing with you on the meaning of Qiblat? No. I am afraid you have misunderstood my words.

Huh?Why do you judged the teachings according to the people, sir? If you donot know the history, then how do you interpret the Quran? The History themselves is considered as part of the context.

So, you are insisting that the Quran should be explained with the present of hadiths written by the "only God know who". But what God himself has to say about hadiths? Let us look;

"Allah has revealed the best hadith, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating,whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins andtheir hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him". - 39:23

Transliteration:

Allahunazzala ahsana alhadeethi kitaban mutashabihan mathaniyataqshaAAirru minhu juloodu allatheena yakhshawna rabbahum thumma taleenujulooduhum waquloobuhum ila thikri Allahi thalikahuda Allahi yahdee bihi man yashao waman yudliliAllahu fama lahu min hadin

disobedience?Since WHEN did we claimed that Muhammad s.a.w. is a partner to Allah?Just because we took his hadith doesn't mean that we are worshippinghim, brother? The Quran has no contradiction, am I right? You haven't give me ONE hadith which contradicted the Quran, brother mp....

I quoted these verses before to make you see how your hadith do contradict the Quran. So, let us look at them once again.

"The places of worship (common translation for masjid to the religious muslims) belong to God, do not call on anyone else beside God" - 72:18

"Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him,and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered"- 3:64

Okay, you solat. What is solat? One of the pillar rites of worshipping God. And who teaches you all about the solat? The Quran? No? The hadith of course. Do you call any one else beside God during you worship to Him? Isn't that contradict the order of the Quran which very very clearly prohibit you from doing that kind of deed? I wonder how you could not see that.

wlio_snr

another word you did not perform any solat at all ?

Truth.8

heheheh.. nope..

I am saying that YOU are SHAMELESS, TAKDE MARUAH PUNYA ORANG....

... coz you have the guts to be here and mocked us even though it is proven that YOU LIED TO YOUR OWN "GOD". ...
gunblade712 Post at 6-9-2009 15:44

it sound mocked to u but i am here to speak the truth.

look at this thread, it was created 2003, does it drown? no. somehow or someone wil bring this topic for some reason

like i said, muslims and u one day will vanished from this forum...me will be here until my dying day.

praise the True GOD

Truth.8

another word you did not perform any solat at all ?
wlio_snr Post at 6-9-2009 21:03

waht is the point you performs  solat and fasting ...the end of day...your tounge make fun of others

wlio_snr

for ALLAH


khar   khar  khar

gunblade712

it sound mocked to u but i am here to speak the truth.

look at this thread, it was created 2003, does it drown? no. somehow or someone wil bring this topic for some reason

like i said, musli ...
Truth.8 Post at 6-9-2009 22:31

what truth?

you took an oath, but somehow your "God" takes your "oath" for granted. Your "God" did not destroy the ka'abah hahahahahah...

so what "truth" are you talking about?

Like I say, shameless people like you always think that you're better than the rest. Too bad, Truth.8. EVERYONE here can see that you're nothing but a sicko and a maniac. 

truth hurts. 

Truth.8

what truth?

you took an oath, but somehow your "God" takes your "oath" for granted. Your "God" did not destroy the ka'abah hahahahahah...

so what "truth" are you talking about?

Like I say ...
gunblade712 Post at 7-9-2009 09:54

so, u never break promise? asnwer me know???

gunblade712

1724# mindpropeller

Well sir, I told you that I always try to do my "solat" the best I can. There is no need for you to know my "solat". That is none of your business. Btw, I don't have any idea who Salafussoleh is.

well, it IS my business, brother. IF I have performed my solat in a wrong and devious way, and you have the right method of performing it, I would love to know and repent for my mistakes. (If it is proven a mistake, that is). 

Salafussoleh is a term for our late predecessors. I am referring to the Sahabah, the Tabi'in, the Tabi'in tabi'it and so forth. 

 The role of Muhamad was basically to convey the Book to the people. If you think he taught more than what was revealed to him, try understand what God tells us through the verses below.

"And they say: Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say: The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner. Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe." – 29:50-51

Do not move your tongue to hasten this revelation. We are in charge of putting them together into the Reading (the Quran).Once We recite it, you shall follow this Reading.Then it is We who will explain it. 75:16-18

he taught more than what was revealed? In what way, brother? The actions and the words of Muhammad s.a.w. is, you can say, the practical of the Quran. Both of us believed that there is no contradiction in the Quran, right? Let's continue below, coz later on we can see the continuation of the "status of Muhammad s.a.w.". 

Of course, Muhamad the aspostle.

yes, so you agree that Allah s.w.t. is referring to Muhammad s.a.w. What does the quoted verse says?

(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought. (An-Nahl : 44)

If that "thou" is Muhammad s.a.w., then what does the verse says? Muhammad s.a.w. may EXPLAIN the Message CLEARLY. 

What is Allah s.w.t referring to here, brother? How can Muhammad s.a.w. explain to us, the later generations, when he has already departed from us? 

Plus, the previous points, you claimed that Muhammad s.a.w is a messenger ONLY, NOT a teacher. Well, if he (s.a.w) is JUST a messenger, then why does Allah s.w.t tells Muhammad s.a.w. that he was sent a message so that he may explain it clearly to men? If he's JUST a messenger, he's nothing more than Allah's "postman" , in which he delivers the message ONLY WITHOUT ANY FURTHER EXPLANATIONS.

There's no contradiction in the Quran, right?

so check this out 

A messenger cannot always be the teacher, yet the teacher is ALWAYS a messenger.

Did I missed something out from Surah An-Nahl, verse 44, brother? 

Agreeing with you on the meaning of Qiblat? No. I am afraid you have misunderstood my words.

aye, if that's the case. please rectify your statement. Somehow it seems that you've agreed with me. Let me re-quote it back for you your postings which I've misunderstood :

#1672 :

Yes of course. But unfortunately the Qiblah that you understand is not the same as what I understand. I just can't figure out how you could relate qiblah, masjidilharam and solat when the verses mention nothing about the latest. As far as I understand, the verses enlighten us that believers of God and His prophets shall not worry about any specific qiblah unlike the people of religions who need specific spot of worship. Indeed God has provided believers a better qiblah to focus to, which are, the sanctioned consented decrees (masjidilharam). With this qiblah you don't have to associate God with any spot, any location, any building, any state, any country or whatever. It is a way of life. That is the appropriate means to serve God.

please explain to me your intention and meaning from the above quoted especially those bold ones. thanks!

So, you are insisting that the Quran should be explained with the present of hadiths written by the "only God know who". But what God himself has to say about hadiths? Let us look;

"Allah has revealed the best hadith, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating,whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins andtheir hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him". - 39:23

Transliteration:

Allahunazzala ahsana alhadeethi kitaban mutashabihan mathaniyataqshaAAirru minhu juloodu allatheena yakhshawna rabbahum thumma taleenujulooduhum waquloobuhum ila thikri Allahi thalikahuda Allahi yahdee bihi man yashao waman yudliliAllahu fama lahu min hadin

urmm... I'm sorry, I'm lost here. Why do you quote this verse? What are you trying to imply, brother?

I quoted these verses before to make you see how your hadith do contradict the Quran. So, let us look at them once again.
"The places of worship (common translation for masjid to the religious muslims) belong to God, do not call on anyone else beside God" - 72:18

"Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him,and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered"- 3:64
Okay, you solat. What is solat? One of the pillar rites of worshipping God. And who teaches you all about the solat? The Quran? No? The hadith of course. Do you call any one else beside God during you worship to Him? Isn't that contradict the order of the Quran which very very clearly prohibit you from doing that kind of deed? I wonder how you could not see that.

huh? what's the contradiction here? Since when does "our solat" is considered as "calling someone else beside Allah during worship ?" Just because we say our prayers unto Muhammad s.a.w? Are you saying that we should not say our selawat? Coz that's what we've been reciting in our prayers. We do not call upon Muhammad s.a.w. or any other prophets (may peace and blessing be unto them all) during our prayers. We only prayed for their peace and blessings. This is selawat. What's wrong with it?

Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. (Al-Ahzab : 56)

That is what the Quran says about selawat, brother. 

So which part of "our solat" contradicts the Quran...? Please explain to us further. In it's fi'li? In it's Qalbi? in it's Qauli?

gunblade712

so, u never break promise? asnwer me know???
Truth.8 Post at 7-9-2009 10:03

lu sapa nak arah2 gua, Truth.8? takde adab kaaaa?

No, I do not think I've made a public oath unto God and broke it. 

mindpropeller

1731# gunblade712

well, it IS my business, brother. IFI have performed my solat in a wrong and devious way, and you have theright method of performing it, I would love to know and repent for mymistakes. (If it is proven a mistake, that is).

Ok... I got your point. I have a different view regarding solat. You see, I was a common muslim like you before. I took whatever is told by the religous teachers and what not. As an example, we are told that Islam (the religion) is the only religion accepted by God and other religions are full of nonsense. But most of the time when pondering about our religion, I found out that we too, are having a religion with no less nonsensibles. I don't want to talk deeper into this, but basically it is how I am what I am today. So, how am I solat? I don't because the solat as per what the common muslims practise is just not right for me.

Salafussoleh is a term for our late predecessors. I am referring to the Sahabah, the Tabi'in, the Tabi'in tabi'it and so forth.

I believe there shall be no sainthood in Islam. Yes we might like to confer some 'good people' with sainthood status, tabi'in tabi'it whatsoever, but the question is who are we to judge other individuals in that manner? We are not God. We are not even dead yet to know how is 'life' over there. Confer them worldly status, like Dato or whatever you deem cool, but when it comes to God matters, just let God do it. Actually this is one of the nonsensibles I found in Islam.

Therole of Muhamad was basically to convey the Book to the people. If youthink he taught more than what was revealed to him, try understand whatGod tells us through the verses below.

"And they say: Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say:The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner. Is it notenough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recitedto them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a peoplewho believe." – 29:50-51

Do not move your tongue to hasten this revelation. We are in charge ofputting them together into the Reading (the Quran).Once We recite it,you shall follow this Reading.Then it is We who will explain it.75:16-18

hetaught more than what was revealed? In what way, brother? The actionsand the words of Muhammad s.a.w. is, you can say, the practical of theQuran. Both of us believed that there is no contradiction in the Quran,right? Let's continue below, coz later on we can see the continuationof the "status of Muhammad s.a.w.".

Please read the above carefully, sir. I never say Muhamad taught more that what was revealed to him.

yes, so you agree that Allah s.w.t. is referring to Muhammad s.a.w. What does the quoted verse says?

(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought. (An-Nahl : 44)

If that "thou" is Muhammad s.a.w., then what does the verse says? Muhammad s.a.w. may EXPLAIN the Message CLEARLY.

What is Allah s.w.t referring to here, brother? How can Muhammad s.a.w.explain to us, the later generations, when he has already departed fromus?

Plus, the previous points, you claimed that Muhammad s.a.w is amessenger ONLY, NOT a teacher. Well, if he (s.a.w) is JUST a messenger,then why does Allah s.w.t tells Muhammad s.a.w. that he was sent amessage so that he may explain it clearly to men? If he's JUST amessenger, he's nothing more than Allah's "postman" , in which hedelivers the message ONLY WITHOUT ANY FURTHER EXPLANATIONS.

I have given my point to you but maybe you just can't grasp it. Nevermind, I'll try one more time. Yes Muhamad must have had some explaining works regarding the Revelation when he was conveying it to the people.  But I am sure, he never explain something that is beyond the contain of the Book. Lets look at the verse you are quoting carefully. In the verse God asked Muhamad TO EXPLAIN THE MESSAGE CLEARLY? What do you understand about THE MESSAGE? Tonnes of tutorial on how to conduct ritual rites? Unimaginable stories of myths and miracles? For me, God just simply asked Muhamad to explain to the people about the Book or The Message or The Revelation or The Reading or The Quran, as clear as he could. Why are you not clear about this? Because you are obssesed to the notion implanted into you that says, Muhamad recieved a revelation and he was going around teaching people religous rites. So, let me present to you again what God has to say about Muhamad's role.

"And they say: Whyare not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say: The signs are onlywith Allah, and I am only a plain warner. Is it not enough for themthat We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Mostsurely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe."– 29:50-51

Do not move your tongue to hasten this revelation. We are in charge of putting them together into the Reading (the Quran).Once We recite it, you shall follow this Reading.Then it is We who will explain it. 75:16-18

There's no contradiction in the Quran, right?

so check this out

A messenger cannot always be the teacher, yet the teacher is ALWAYS a messenger.

Did I missed something out from Surah An-Nahl, verse 44, brother?

Agreeing with you on the meaning of Qiblat? No. I am afraid you have misunderstood my words.

aye,if that's the case. please rectify your statement. Somehow it seemsthat you've agreed with me. Let me re-quote it back for you yourpostings which I've misunderstood :

#1672 :

IndeedGod has provided believers a better qiblah to focus to, which are, thesanctioned consented decrees (masjidilharam). With this qiblah youdon't have to associate God with any spot, any location, any building,any state, any country or whatever. It is a way of life. That is theappropriate means to serve God.

please explain to me your intention and meaning from the above quoted especially those bold ones. thanks!

Okay, lets see the verse 2:142

"The fools among the people will say: What has turned them from theirqiblah which they had? Say: The East and the West belong only to Allah;He guides whom He likes to the right path".

And then verse 2:144

"Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surelyturn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towardsthe Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, andthose who have been given the Book most surely know that it is thetruth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do."

Read the message of God carefully. Can you really believe that after God has deemed the people who is asking about Qiblah ("direction or focus of worship") as fools, suddenly he was offering Muhamad a new "Qiblah"? God was surely not talking about any place or location of worship or direction of worship in that manner as to what most of us might think. We shall not have the same thinking of the people who God deemed them fools hence the Sacred Mosque in the verse shall never refer to a big mosque containing Kaabah in Makkah. God was talking about the decrees within His system, His approved and intended system for all of us. Baitullah is not the House of Allah, but rather the God's system. God does not need a house. He created us a system. Everything in this universe exists within the God's system. We too, have to follow the system. We will be successful if we study the system and apply it. We have to be in "peace" with the system, in other word, with God. Masjidilharam is not a mosque containing Kaabah, but is supposed to mean sanctioned consented decrees which were the Qiblah of all the other prophets too and the people who believed them. That is why God said this,

"...turn your face towards it, andthose who have been given the Book most surely know that it is thetruth..."

This

So,you are insisting that the Quran should be explained with the presentof hadiths written by the "only God know who". But what God himself hasto say about hadiths? Let us look;

"Allah has revealed the best hadith, a book conformable in its variousparts, repeating,whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear theirLord, then their skins andtheir hearts become pliant to the remembranceof Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases;and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him". -39:23

urmm... I'm sorry, I'm lost here. Why do you quote this verse? What are you trying to imply, brother?

I am saying that, if you believe in those non sensible hadiths, God had remind you that His Hadith (the Quran) is actually the best for you. Read Quran and leave those fake hadiths that will lead you to be a loser.

That is what the Quran says about selawat, brother.

Yup you may send the prophet your blessing. But you must know the limit of your salutation and respect to the prophet. He was not God, so we shall not ascribe him with God as if God needs him as a partner.

So which part of "our solat" contradicts the Quran...? Please explainto us further. In it's fi'li? In it's Qalbi? in it's Qauli?

I don't know, sir. But solat is a misquoted word that it is not even exist in the Quran.

gunblade712

1733# mindpropeller

Ok... I got your point. I have a different view regarding solat. You see, I was a common muslim like you before. I took whatever is told by the religous teachers and what not. As an example, we are told that Islam (the religion) is the only religion accepted by God and other religions are full of nonsense. But most of the time when pondering about our religion, I found out that we too, are having a religion with no less nonsensibles. I don't want to talk deeper into this, but basically it is how I am what I am today. So, how am I solat? I don't because the solat as per what the common muslims practise is just not right for me.

but solat is ordered by Allah, brother. Are you telling me that Allah ordered you to perform the solat but He did not tell you HOW to do it? 

Thy Lord doth know that thou standest forth (to prayer) nigh two-thirds of the night, or half the night, or a third of the night, and so doth a party of those with thee. But Allah doth appoint night and day in due measure He knoweth that ye are unable to keep count thereof. So He hath turned to you (in mercy): read ye, therefore, of the Qur'an as much as may be easy for you. He knoweth that there may be (some) among you in ill-health; others travelling through the land, seeking of Allah.s bounty; yet others fighting in Allah.s Cause, read ye, therefore, as much of the Qur'an as may be easy (for you); and establish regular Prayer and give regular Charity; and loan to Allah a Beautiful Loan. And whatever good ye send forth for your souls ye shall find it in Allah.s Presence,- yea, better and greater, in Reward and seek ye the Grace of Allah. for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Al-Muzzammil : 20)

That's an order from your Lord and my Lord, brother. 

I believe there shall be no sainthood in Islam. Yes we might like to confer some 'good people' with sainthood status, tabi'in tabi'it whatsoever, but the question is who are we to judge other individuals in that manner? We are not God. We are not even dead yet to know how is 'life' over there. Confer them worldly status, like Dato or whatever you deem cool, but when it comes to God matters, just let God do it. Actually this is one of the nonsensibles I found in Islam.

no, it's not sainthood. It has nothing to do with worldly status in the first place. So you can't compare this with "dato" or whatnot. 

"Salaf" means "dead" . "Soleh" means "righteous people" (both are translated loosely). You DO know that there are the Sahabah who stood by Muhammad s.a.w during his mission, right? They are righteous people. So is it wrong for us to thing positive and call them with nice names?

Please read the above carefully, sir. I never say Muhamad taught more that what was revealed to him.

yes, you didn't. But you claimed that we hold on to the fact that Muhammad s.a.w. taught more that what was revealed. 

I have given my point to you but maybe you just can't grasp it. Nevermind, I'll try one more time. Yes Muhamad must have had some explaining works regarding the Revelation when he was conveying it to the people.  But I am sure, he never explain something that is beyond the contain of the Book. Lets look at the verse you are quoting carefully. In the verse God asked Muhamad TO EXPLAIN THE MESSAGE CLEARLY? What do you understand about THE MESSAGE? Tonnes of tutorial on how to conduct ritual rites? Unimaginable stories of myths and miracles? For me, God just simply asked Muhamad to explain to the people about the Book or The Message or The Revelation or The Reading or The Quran, as clear as he could. Why are you not clear about this? Because you are obssesed to the notion implanted into you that says, Muhamad recieved a revelation and he was going around teaching people religous rites. So, let me present to you again what God has to say about Muhamad's role.

"And they say: Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say: The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner. Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe."– 29:50-51

Do not move your tongue to hasten this revelation. We are in charge of putting them together into the Reading (the Quran).Once We recite it, you shall follow this Reading.Then it is We who will explain it. 75:16-18

Obsession ain't part of the thing, brother. I would be more than happy to reject the Al-Hadith and repent if you can proof to me that the Al-Hadith SHOULD be rejected. Now, I've given you the explanations that Muhammad s.a.w. isn't just a messenger, he's a teacher. If you rejected this idea, that's fine by me. But what fascinates me is that the Quran clearly says that you need to PERFORM YOUR SOLAT. That's an order from the Almighty. 

Yet HOW do you perform your solat? It's not in the Quran, brother. 

So are you telling me that you and your brethren believed that Allah s.w.t gave out an order but He forgots to tell you HOW to perform it?   

Na'uzubillah, Allah is free from all of these thing! 

The second quoted verse has a Sirah Nabawiyyah that goes along with it, but seeing that you blatantly rejected the Al-Hadith, I would refrain from discussing about it. 

Okay, lets see the verse 2:142

"The fools among the people will say: What has turned them from their qiblah which they had? Say: The East and the West belong only to Allah;He guides whom He likes to the right path".

And then verse 2:144

"Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towardsthe Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, andthose who have been given the Book most surely know that it is thetruth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do." 

Read the message of God carefully. Can you really believe that after God has deemed the people who is asking about Qiblah ("direction or focus of worship") as fools, suddenly he was offering Muhamad a new "Qiblah"? God was surely not talking about any place or location of worship or direction of worship in that manner as to what most of us might think. We shall not have the same thinking of the people who God deemed them fools hence the Sacred Mosque in the verse shall never refer to a big mosque containing Kaabah in Makkah. God was talking about the decrees within His system, His approved and intended system for all of us. Baitullah is not the House of Allah, but rather the God's system. God does not need a house. He created us a system. Everything in this universe exists within the God's system. We too, have to follow the system. We will be successful if we study the system and apply it. We have to be in "peace" with the system, in other word, with God. Masjidilharam is not a mosque containing Kaabah, but is supposed to mean sanctioned consented decrees which were the Qiblah of all the other prophets too and the people who believed them. That is why God said this,

"...turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth..."

Aiseh... you've misinterpreted the verse even from the start, brother. 

The fools among the people will say: What has turned them from their qiblah which they had? Say: The East and the West belong only to Allah;He guides whom He likes to the right path". (Glorious Qur'an:2:142)


Allah s.w.t. didn't call those who asked for Qiblat as fools, brother. Allah s.w.t. is calling those who argued with the fact that Muhammad s.a.w. and the Muslims turned their face from the FIRST QIBLAT unto the SECOND QIBLAT. They argued with the Order. 

What you've used in your explanation is Qias. I do not know whether Qias can be applied here or not. You have to be a master in the Arab Language in order to use Qias (from the Quran). And you only took one (or two, if you consider the first ones as a dalil) verse from the Quran and use your own interpretation of it. Is there any other verse to back-up your qias on the system thing?

I am saying that, if you believe in those non sensible hadiths, God had remind you that His Hadith (the Quran) is actually the best for you. Read Quran and leave those fake hadiths that will lead you to be a loser.

huh? but 16:44 clearly says that Muhammad s.a.w. can explain the book of God. Muhammad s.a.w. can explain the Quran. HOW does Muhammad s.a.w. explained it?

Yup you may send the prophet your blessing. But you must know the limit of your salutation and respect to the prophet. He was not God, so we shall not ascribe him with God as if God needs him as a partner.

ok. so which part of the solat is considered as "ascribing the prophets with Allah" ?

I don't know, sir. But solat is a misquoted word that it is not even exist in the Quran.

i beg to differ, sir. The word "solat" is there, in the Quran, all along. Check out 73:20 and 4:103. I do not know how to put the arabic text here, but I think you can read arabic, right?


Allah knows best.

mindpropeller

Post Last Edit by gunblade712 at 7-9-2009 13:44

1733# mindpropeller



but solat is ordered by Allah, brother. Are you telling me that Allah ordered you to perform the solat but He did not te ...
gunblade712 Post at 7-9-2009 13:42

Dear Gunblade712,

I think you are too fast in replying my points and it does not show that you really want to at least give yourself a chance to ponder them. So, no point debating like this. Tq

Bapa

1682# mindpropeller

bagus, tapi kenapa mempersoalkan Islam? apa yang awak tak puas hati terhadap agama Islam?

gunblade712

1735# mindpropeller

huh? ponder on your postings? Replying fast doesn't mean I do not ponder on it, brother.

You yourself have given a somehow "contradiction" in the Quran by doing your own tafseer on the matter. 

I have listened to what you have said from so many of those anti-hadith brothers, and I've been asking the same question unto your brethren over and over again. None of 'em have answered me truthfully.

Now, seeing that you are sincere in debating (I would rather say, discussing), I forwarded my question, just like you have forwarded you points. 

So what is the "you are replying too fast" attitude, brother? What you say is exactly like what the other anti-hadith has presented to me. 

Just because you need some time in answering me doesn't mean that I need the same amount of time in answering yours, brother. 

mindpropeller

1682# mindpropeller

bagus, tapi kenapa mempersoalkan Islam? apa yang awak tak puas hati terhadap agama Islam?
Bapa Post at 7-9-2009 13:58

I did not question Islam. I just have a different perspective regarding it. What's wrong with that?

mindpropeller

1735# mindpropeller

huh? ponder on your postings? Replying fast doesn't mean I do not ponder on it, brother.

You yourself have given a somehow "contradiction" in the Quran by doing your own ta ...
gunblade712 Post at 7-9-2009 13:59

I mean because you prone to misunderstood my points. If you don't believe, please read back my posting and your reply just before I said you were replying too fast.

bronok

tafsir is different from translation mr propeller
i think u depend too much on logic
r u anti-hadith?