|
|
Originally posted by nightlord at 16-1-2005 12:02 AM:
No I think most muslims are in denial.
GOD/ALLAH gave you a brain - but you guys seldom use it.
For example, you admit MO was a trader. Tell me which trader can do business if he cannot reco ...
as predicted, the non believers will a;ways come out with something to say otherwise. as i said before, no point to argue. you won't believe whatever we said and we won't believe whatever you said. so it;s better if we just mind our own faith. but you christians always come up with new thread regarding islam as if you want to know more about the truthfullness of islam and tried very hard to deny it. you feel guilty about your feelings regarding islam, but because of your ego, you won't admit it.
:pray: |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"but you christians always come up with new thread regarding islam as if you want to know more about the truthfullness of islam and tried very hard to deny it. you feel guilty about your feelings regarding islam, but because of your ego, you won't admit it." - by ashna
Aren抰 the Muslims doing the same thing to Christians here? Respect works both ways, ashna. And if you can't respect others at least don't be a hypocrite. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is the "mathematical miracles of the quran".....:ah:
( http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p4_01.php )
WORD REPETITIONS IN THE QUR'AN
Apart from the miraculous characteristics of the Qur'an which we have looked into so far, it also contains what we can term "mathematical miracles." There are many examples of this fascinating Qur'anic aspect. One example of this is the number of repetitions of certain words in the Qur'an. Some related words are surprisingly repeated the same number of times. Below is a list of such words and the number of repetitions in the Qur'an.
The statement of "seven heavens" is repeated seven times. "The creation of the heavens (khalq as-samawat)" is also repeated seven times.
"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times. The number of repetitions of the word "month" (shahar) is 12.
The number of repetitions of the words "plant" and "tree" is the same: 26
The word "payment or reward" is repeated 117 times, while the expression "forgiveness" (mughfirah), which is one of the basic morals of the Qur'an, is repeated exactly twice that amount, 234 times.
When we count the word "Say," we find it appears 332 times. We arrive at the same figure when we count the phrase "they said."
The number of times the words, "world" (dunya) and "hereafter" (akhira) are repeated is also the same: 115
The word "satan" (shaitan) is used in the Qur'an 88 times, as is the word "angels" (malaika).
The word faith (iman) (without genitive) is repeated 25 times throughout the Qur'an as is also the word infidelity (kufr).
The words "paradise" and "hell" are each repeated 77 times.
The word "zakah" is repeated in the Qur'an 32 times and the number of repetitions of the word "blessing" (barakah) is also 32.
The expression "the righteous" (al-abraar) is used 6 times but "the wicked" (al-fujjaar) is used half as much, i.e., 3 times.
The number of times the words "Summer-hot" and "winter-cold" are repeated is the same: 5.
The words "wine" (khamr) and "intoxication" (saqara) are repeated in the Qur'an the same number of times: 6
The number of appearances of the words "mind" and "light" is the same: 49.
The words "tongue" and "sermon" are both repeated 25 times.
The words "benefit" and "corrupt" both appear 50 times.
"Reward" (ajr) and "action" (fail) are both repeated 107 times.
"Love" (al-mahabbah) and "obedience" (al-ta'ah) also appear the same number of times: 83
The words "refuge" (maseer) and "for ever" (abadan) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 28.
The words "disaster" (al-musibah) and "thanks" (al-shukr) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 75.
"Sun" (shams) and "light" (nur) both appear 33 times in the Qur'an.
In counting the word "light" only the simple forms of the word were included.
The number of appearances of "right guidance" (al-huda) and "mercy" (al-rahma) is the same: 79
The words "trouble" and "peace" are both repeated 13 times in the Qur'an.
The words "man" and "woman" are also employed equally: 23 times.
Will they not ponder the Qur’an? If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it.
(Qur’an, 4:82)
The number of times the words "man" and "woman" are repeated in the Qur'an, 23, is at the same time that of the chromosomes from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo. The total number of human chromosomes is 46; 23 each from the mother and father.
"Treachery" (khiyanah) is repeated 16 times, while the number of repetitions of the word "foul" (khabith) is 16.
"Human being" is used 65 times: the sum of the number of references to the stages of man's creation is the same: i.e.
Human being 65
Soil (turab) 17
Drop of Sperm (nutfah) 12
Embryo ('alaq) 6
A half formed lump of flesh (mudghah) 3
Bone ('idham) 15
Flesh (lahm) 12
TOTAL 65
The word "salawat" appear five times in the Qur'an, and Allah has commanded man to perform the prayer (salat) five times a day.
The word "land" appears 13 times in the Qur'an and the word "sea" 32 times, giving a total of 45 references. If we divide that number by that of the number of references to the land we arrive at the figure 28.888888888889%. The number of total references to land and sea, 45, divided by the number of references to the sea in the Qur'an, 32, is 71.111111111111%. Extraordinarily, these figures represent the exact proportions of land and sea on the Earth today.238
Allah Knows Best,Peace Yall.... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
From Nightlord
No I think most muslims are in denial.
GOD/ALLAH gave you a brain - but you guys seldom use it.
For example, you admit MO was a trader. Tell me which trader can do business if he cannot record any of his stocks or purchases.
You can easily try it yourself, buy and sell for 3 months but dont record anything..........
So how can he be an illiterate.
He wont be able to read syariah laws, and only believe what people tell him, even if they are lies, he wont know.
The question is, how come a trader being a successful trader, but at the same time he is illiterate? It seem unlogical right, cause as Nightlord emphasis that the trader have to keep stock and everyhting.
I would like to ask, how the trading at that day, 1400 years ago will be complicated as we imagine, as the trading today. The thing is, the situation is unlogical, but is unlogical situation imposibble?
For that, I leave nightlord, debmey with this articles
MANY of the rich and famous have humble beginnings in the pre-war houses of inner city George Town in Penang.
Among them is the late business tycoon Tan Sri Loh Boon Siew who was a teenager when he arrived in Penang in a small boat from China in 1924.
According to local historian Datuk Khoo Keat Siew, Loh, who could speak only Hok- kien and had virtually no formal education, worked as an apprentice car mechanic upon his arrival in Penang.
揟he teenager stayed in a coolie keng (workers' quarters) at 4, Katz Street.
揕oh supplemented his income by washing buses at nights for a meagre 10 sen per vehicle, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Did the article say that Loh Boon Siew was illiterate?
Nope, many such rags to riches folks learnt to recognise Chinese characters on their own. My wife never learnt Chinese but can read Chinese too, she's good example.
Do you know that Chinese don't even have alphabets, unlike the Arabs? This makes Chinese infinitely more difficult that Arabic. Mo could not have been illiterate given the circumstances where even numbers were written in alphabets. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
tutulmaz This user has been deleted
|
Authenticity of the Holy Qoran
Hi everyone, I am Fehmi & New to the Forum,
I don't understand why you keep on saying that Qoran was finished 70 years after the death of the Prophet. I guess, you just wished it to be so, or it is sticked into your mind from a baseless anti-islamic reference. You should not believe in such fabricated acts without making the necassary and sufficient inquiry. The teaching of Jesus/christianity should refrain you from slandering.
I myself know many people around me who know the Qoran by heart. Qoran can be memorized by heart without even skipping or forgetting just one single letter. This is hardly doable for any other book.
Assume that we would make all exisitng copies of Qoran's make disappear now, and prevent people from writing it down for 70 years, still it would't make any difference for people (who know it by heart) to re-write it in its original text. For I have memorized nearly 1/5 of the Qoran and have not been forgetting even a single verse of it for nearly 15 years. And I wil not forget any verse since I am keeping on reciting them in may daily prayers.
That is how hundreds (who knew the holy Qoran by heart) of followers of the then living Prophet Mohammad have surely prevented any alteration or harm that may come upon it.
Another crucial fact that you should know is that all verses were written down by dozens followers (sahaba's) who were merely appointed/assigned to write them and keep track with the prophet wherever he goes. Hence, the holy Qoran was existing during the life of the Prophet both in written scripts and by Muslims who knew it by heart.
However, the thing which was realized after the death of the prophet was to bind these previously written texts under the strict control of muslims who already memorized the entire Qoran. Besides, this was done several months after his death and during the time of the first Khalif but not 70 years after as you claimed.
You may have mixed it up with the time of the third Khalif Uthman who sent the first copies of Qoran to all of his governorships and even that is not 70 years after the death of Hz. Mohammad.
After all we do know that the holy Qoran is authentic.Thus, contrary to you,I would not make any comments about your current religion of christianity and your current book of bible without sufficient research . But could you assure that the bible has gone through the same (or at least similar in the method and time frame) process just like the Qoran did. Was the bible memorized by hundreds of people without being confused even in one single word and was it exisiting in written texts and cross-checked by dozens of followers and controlled by the prophet Jesus personnally? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I quote from the article "inability to read and write", it is obviously means that he is illiterate. If he Tan Sri Boon Siew is at least know the Chinese character why then the articles describe futhermore "he depended a lot on his memory". If you got any definition of illiterate let me know, coz I might not have the some of intrepretation of the word illiterate as you have. My understanding on the word literate are "Able to read and write" which to further describe illiterate means not be able to read and write which is not contradict with the phrase I've quoted before. I don't know the fact that on that particular years (1400 years ago) the number in Arabic was written in words, if you have the references I would like to have some reading about the matter, but I do know on that particular time there only exist two type of "money" in use which is Dinar and Dirham (like our coins). Dinar made from gold, and dirham from silver. It simple calculation, if you have 400 pieces of dirham, that means you have 400 dirham. If you have 20 pieces of Dinar, you have 20 Dinar. I don't think you need to have the ability of read and write to count this coins. Do you?
Furthermore the article clearly stated that Tan Sri Boon Siew had to depend so much in his memory.
Which is in this case, Muhammad (pbuhahf) get the revelation from Arangel Gabriel, learn by heart and memorised, which is not possible.
How can this be so imposibble as regular man as Tan Sri Boon Siew can do this, and he has prove he is very succesful business man.
And Muhammad (pbuhahf), which logically is nothing imposible, coz he is a prohphet. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
once again Debmey, if Boon Siew can recognized the Chinese letter, can you give me the references for me to do my own research. Thanks. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Has the Quran been altered?
Lets discuss the original topic, the non Muslim charged that the Quran being altered and they also claim that Quran only has been compile 70 years after Muhammad pbuhahf dismisal.
Anyone can bring argumentation, printed evidents and so on but to ensure everybody satisfied with evident is merely impossible as everyone has their on motive and interest and reasaon and so on and so on. As noone can admit they present at the time of revelation of having recorded evident so that everybody will satisfied. Let the pass not discuss for time being.
Let concentrate on what we have now?
The evident that easily can be shown in front of our naked eyes. If they says differently for what they have see, they are totally a liar.
Let people who not believe and consistently charge Al-Quran has been altered, at what sense or any part Quran has been altered?
Quran which in my house, in other muslims house, in Pakistan, India, Iran, Syria, Iraq, USA, Britain, Australia, even in Syiah community will be the same Quran that you also can buy in the market. If one can find the significant differences between my Quran and others Quran, than you can make the claim?
This test can be apply at anytime.
And how can you explain the consistencies of the content of Al-Quran, in any part of the world, or even you can check the Quran with the ancient Quran that has been preserved in many Museum? How can you explain this?
Take note, that the books now 1400 years old, very ancient you know?
If any person have the interest to altered the book, they actually can do it. When Khalifa Usman send the book at other part of the world, which not to the Arab spoken country, they can change it totally to their own language. For example, Islam came to Tanah Melayu by mean of trading, at that particular time the government is not Islamic goverment at all. They can easily change the language of the Quran at any time even the content? Who will know? Is there anyone will hold your hand if you have the mean to change the content? Will anyone bother? No, not at all.
But, the Quran is still here, the same text, the same content, without any changes? Isn't this truely a miracle!
(note that the Quran is more than 1400 years old) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It has been part of the Muslim抯 belief, based on traditions, that Prophet Muhammad was illiterate. God says in verse 29:51 that the Quran itself is the only miracle of the prophet. By alleging illiteracy for him, traditional Muslims were trying to make the claim even "more miraculous," for a book of such literary quality was sent down through an illiterate man. This is despite the many assertions in the Quran to the contrary. The first Quranic revelation that came down to Muhammad is, "Read! In the name of your Lord who creates...." (96:1) It is clear that this is also a commandment. To all of us, including the prophet, God stresses the importance of literacy in the very first revelation. Furthermore, the second revelation is "The Pen" which indicates again the importance of written communication. This makes the importance of literacy even more compelling. If indeed Muhammad was an illiterate man when the Quran was first revealed to him, how could he not make himself learn to read and write during the twenty some years of his mission? Perhaps a more poignant question should be, "How dare he not to obey his Lord抯 clear commandment to read and write?" Being a messenger of God, of course he would not dare disobeying his Lord.
A still more transparent picture emerges from the interesting incident described in Quran 25:4-5. In this verse, Muhammad抯 opponents who rejected the divine source of the Quran accused him of fabricating narrations. "Tales from the past that he wrote down; they were dictated to him day and night," or so they alleged. This is a clear Quranic evidence that Prophet Muhammad was a literate man. Not only was Muhammad accused of writing down what he heard, one cannot dictate to an illiterate person. Some have argued that this is not a solid proof, since the statement came from shady characters, in this case from Muhammad抯 enemies. But this argument is in itself weak. We may have a good reason to suspect the material content of the allegation (namely that Muhammad fabricated the Quran). However, there is no good reason to doubt the peripheral issue mentioned, i.e. Muhammad抯 writing and his friends |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If muslims argue that the Quran cannot be corrupted as it is the direct word of Allah, then by the same reasoning the the Torah and Injil cannot be corrupted by MAN as ALLAH will no allow it to happen.
If the reverse is true, then THE QURAN is definitely opened to corruption. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Abt Boon Siew.
If you guys dont know. Boon Siew could use the abacus like we use the calculator.
You are right he WAS an illiterate man. But he was a smart man. He taught himself to read and write.
Tell me anyone who has brains cannot teach himself to read and write.
I dont know Arabic.
Anyone wish to challenge me and send me to Saudi Arabia for six months.
And in that time , I will show you that I would have picked up the basics Arabic in speech and writing.
ANYONE? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
YOU GUYS ARE TOO DUMB TO ADMIT that the story of Muhammad being illiterat all his life does not hold water. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by nightlord at 23-1-2005 07:08 AM:
If muslims argue that the Quran cannot be corrupted as it is the direct word of Allah, then by the same reasoning the the Torah and Injil cannot be corrupted by MAN as ALLAH will no allow it to hap ...
give one verse from both that guranteesmits authenticity |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by nightlord at 15-1-2005 06:02 AM:
No I think most muslims are in denial.
GOD/ALLAH gave you a brain - but you guys seldom use it.
For example, you admit MO was a trader. Tell me which trader can do business if he cannot reco ...
lies..ish ish ish...if he believes in lies, he wouldnt be a prophet wiuldnt he |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by snipersnake at 2005-1-25 08:08 AM:
give one verse from both that guranteesmits authenticity
How silly can you be? Is a proclaimation proof?
What if say I proclaim myself to be a prophet, does that make me a prophet? Ypou realise how silly yu are? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Originally posted by Debmey at 24-1-2005 03:56 PM:
How silly can you be? Is a proclaimation proof?
What if say I proclaim myself to be a prophet, does that make me a prophet? Ypou realise how silly yu are?
ish ish ish..JUST ONE VERSE FROM BOTH books that gurantees its authencity will do |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
Post time 16-1-2005 12:59 AM
Author
