Debmey, me, truth8., nightlord, divine: A Bible Contradiction

3. The Evidence
We have now arrived at a brief albeit illuminating analysis of how the theoretical analysis above can be used to prove that the Christian god cannot possibly exist. As the reader knows by now, the basis for this argument is that the qualities ascribed to the Christian god assist us in determining what kind of written revelation he would bring about and compare it to the Bible. If it can be demonstrated that the Bible violates any of the basic demands on a divine revelation, then the Christian god cannot exist. If we do not succeed in demonstrating this, this still does not mean that the Christian god exists, but that other methods (aside from the epistemological one of this essay) shall have to be used if we are to disprove his existence.[6] However, we boldly assert that the following demonstration is indeed sufficient to prove the Christian god's non-existence. There will be one point corresponding to each argument above.

Argument: The original document of the Bible is inerrant. Counter-argument: There is a problem with the verification of this claim, and that is that we are not in possession of the original document of the Bible. But let us continue to investigate the argument, using available translations (e.g., the KJV, the NIV, the NASB, the RSV, the Darby, and the YLT). In combination, they use the available documents, including the Masoretic Hebrew text, the Septuagint, and the Dead-Sea Scrolls. Hence, our method brings us as close as we can possibly get to the original text. We will look at three Bible passages: Acts 13:17-22, 1 Chron. 29:27-28 and 1 Kings 6:1. The first two in conjunction inform us that Solomon's reign began at least 530 years after the Hebrews left Egypt. But 1 Kings 6:1 claims that Solomon's reign began 476 years after the Hebrews left Egypt - a discrepancy of at least 54 years.[7] Hence, the original manuscript of the Bible contained at least one error (no matter if the Septuagint is correct with reference to 1 Kings 6:1 or if all the other translations mentioned above are correct), which means that the Christian god cannot possibly exist.


Argument: Any Bible translation is inerrant. Counter-argument: One example which disproves the just-made argument will be provided from the King James Version (the same error is provided in the RSV, the Darby, and the YLT). 2 Chron. 9:25 says, "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen..." while 1 Kings 4:26 says, "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen." This contradiction is de facto in place in the KJV, which renders that translation imperfect. Hence, the Christian god - omnipotent and perfect - cannot possibly exist. (It is to be noted that the Masoretic Hebrew text contains this contradiction, but some Septuagint manuscripts do not. Thus, it is possible that this contradiction is not in the original text, although we do not know that; but it is certainly in most Bible translations.)


Argument: The Bible is clear and unambiguous. Counter-argument: To claim this is quite stark, because history tells us that Christian unity on doctrinal issues, even fundamental ones, as well as convincing anti-Christian challenges, have been abundantly present. This is one of the issues debated between Michael Martin and John Frame (http://www.infidels.org/library/ ... rtin/martin-frame/), and Martin convincingly states, "Let us recall that there are differences among Christians over, among other things, the morality of the death penalty, war, abortion, premarital sex, homosexuality, private property, social drinking, and gambling. Most of these differences are based on different interpretations of Christian revelation. To suppose that there is a rational way to reconcile these controversies by appealing to revelation stretches credibility to the breaking point." And the list of intra-Christian controversies could be made much longer: suffice it to mention the papacy, the doctrine regarding Mary, the trinity, baptism, speaking in tongues (where, interestingly, Fundamentalist Baptists and Fundamentalist Pentecostals disagree), the issue of creationism, predestination, purgatory, consciousness after death, and so on. Since the Christian god is perfect and omnipotent, could he have produced the Bible, on which perfect agreement cannot be reached by humans? No. In addition, these type of unclear matters give anti-theists plenty of ammunition, which god surely would have prevented, should he have existed. In all, it is clear that he cannot exist.


Argument: There is an objective way of determining which document is the written revelation of god. Counter-argument: There is no such objective way of determining whether the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavadgita, the Book of Mormon, the Edda, or Homer are true divine revelations. It is often possible to prove that a certain document is not a true revelation of a certain god (which is what this essay is doing with reference to the Bible and the Christian god), but to prove that a document is truly divine in an objective manner, one would need some type of additional revelation from god, which in itself must be unambiguous. However, if this god can provide such an unambiguous revelation, the question is why he did not produce such absolute clarity in the first place. Without such self-contained evidence, one could never be certain that a document is truly divine. (As an aside, necessary but certainly not sufficient conditions for true divine inspiration are complete logical consistency and inerrancy with regard to all facts external to the document itself.) And since such evidence is not in existence, the Christian god cannot possibly exist.

Any one of these points is, in itself, sufficient for us to understand that the Christian god cannot exist. Taken together, they constitute overwhelming evidence to this effect.

4. Conclusion
We began this essay by generously granting the Christian the assumption that the Christian god does, indeed, exist. We then used logic to derive what the characteristics of this god's revelation would be like, and found that (i) the original text must be inerrant; (ii) all later manuscripts and translations must be inerrant; (iii) this revelation must be unambiguously clear in every respect; and (iv) there must be some objective way for humans to know that this document is "the real thing." These four demands follow directly from the characteristics of the Christian god, most notably those of perfection, omnipotence, and omniscience: this god not only must want his only written revelation to be inerrant in all dimensions, he is also capable of seeing to its being produced in such a way.


We then proceeded by scrutinising how the Bible does on these four points. The result was overwhelmingly clear: the Bible is not inerrant in its original text, to the best of human knowledge; it is not inerrant in all its later manuscripts and translations; it is not unambiguously clear; and there is no way to determine objectively if it, rather than, say, the Koran, is divine.


The only possible conclusion from this is that the Christian god - i.e., the god of the Bible - cannot possibly exist. If one assumes that he does, as we did, and looks at the implications of this assumption, one finds that the implications are such as to violate what we detect in the real world.


Now it does not take much knowledge of psychology to understand that the argument of this essay is very disturbing to a Christian. He may bend over backways to try to rescue his specific version of theism, but he must, if he is to retain intellectual credibility, explicitly point out how a perfect and omnipotent god can provide a revelation which violates his very nature. Or he may resort to the classical way out: misology, i.e., to claim that his god is a mystery which cannot be understood. One wonders why one should believe in something which cannot be understood when it is possible to opt for the alternative: to believe only in things which are understandable.


So where does this leave one? Clearly, with some useful knowledge, viz., that Christianity is false. It is then advisable for one to proceed by analysing the larger issue, if theism is true or false. Reading Smith (1979) is one way of doing this, and that leaves one an atheist - and a basis for dealing with life as it is.

Footnotes


For a similar statement, see Baptist pastor Jerry Falwell (1987, p. 150).
It should be noted at the outset that "the Christian god" is equivalent to the deity presented in the Bible; and this is the only god being discussed in this essay. This implies that it is not possible to say that the Christian god exists without any relationship to the Bible. This approach is shared by (Fundamentalist) Christians, who refer to the Bible to get information about what and who their god is.
The term "omnipotent" and the terms "almighty" and "all-powerful" are used interchangeably. It is, following standard Christian thinking, defined as being able to do anything which is logically possible. There are definite problems with "omnipotence" in its relationship to logic, as discussed by philosopher Michael Martin in a debate with theologian John Frame, but we disregard that objection for the sake of argument.
This description of the Christian god is in line with that of Robertson (1987, pp. 45-46).
On the concepts of free will and original sin, see philosopher Ayn Rand (1961, p. 168 ff.).
That is, failing to prove not-X does not necessarily imply X.
It should be noted that one translation, the Septuagint, puts the number 440 instead of 480 in 1 Kings 6:1, but that need not concern us here, for the following reason. If all other translations are correct, then the discrepancy of at least 54 years holds. If the Septuagint is correct, then this discrepancy does not vanish, but it is made greater (in fact, at least 94 years).

put this topic back on top.

why the hell no one wants to answer this thread???

Mgsrulz

no answers to ur statements...HAHAHAHA....

Originally posted by deepjunior at 12-8-2005 10:13 PM
why the hell no one wants to answer this thread???

didnt i just answered it...???

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by me at 15-8-2005 09:58 AM



didnt i just answered it...???

What anwser ? Where and when?

Duh at least Truth8 and Debmey better than u?

Debmey anwser my question about God and satan in bible. He admit that lor in the verse is refered  as satan.

While Truth8 , give us straight forward awnser which Bible is corrupted and RC are the one who responsible in bible corruption.

Originally posted by anti_aktivis at 15-8-2005 05:32 PM


What anwser ? Where and when?

here..


11-8-2005 04:15 PM        #135

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by me at 16-8-2005 09:57 AM



here..


11-8-2005 04:15 PM        #135

what? here what?

Originally posted by anti_aktivis at 17-8-2005 01:37 PM



what? here what?

post number 135

#135??

I see a lot of contradictions..thanks..

and it has nothing to do with the topic...

[ Last edited by deepjunior at 20-8-2005 03:12 AM ]

read posts #138, 139, 140, 141, 142

whats the use...

when we prove it was not...

you just keep posting what you call contradiction...

then when we prove it was not  again...

you just keep posting others...

so whats the point...