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Persoalan sekitar Wahabi dan ASWJ
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السلام عليكم
Thread ini saya buka bertujuan utk membincangkan isu-isu yg terbangkit di salah satu thread dlm board utama M&M, iaitu:
1. Adakah fahaman Wahabi terkeluar dari ASWJ?
2. Siapakah mereka yg dimaksudkan dgn ASWJ?
3. Apakah manhaj yg digunakan oleh ASWJ dlm aqidah dll?
4. Adakah aliran pemikiran Ibnu Taimiyyah terkeluar dari ASWJ?
5. Apakah yg dimaksudkan dgn fahaman salaf?
6. Adakah Wahabi menolak tarekat?
7. Adakah khilaf yg berlaku dlm masalah bid'ah, talqin, menyambut maulidul rasul, tahlil dll boleh menyebabkan terkeluar dari ASWJ?
dll persoalan yg berkaitan.
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Originally posted by nahzaluz at 25-7-2005 12:12 AM:
السلام عليكم
Thread ini saya buka bertujuan utk membincangkan isu-isu yg terbangkit di salah satu thread dlm board utama M&M ...
ermm...baru masuk kat thread ni..rupa-rupanya ustaz ada buat thread khusus uk soalan berkaitan Wahabi/Salafi...rupanyer....
oklah ustaz...tatie yg dangkal ilmu ini sebenarnya tidak setanding dgn ustaz bagaimanapun dengan tunjukajar guru dan ilmu yg diusahakan boleh jugalah berkongsi info di sini....
Tatie suka kalau ustaz dapat akses URL di bawah ini kerana di situ banyak terdapat jawapan terhadap persoalan yg ustaz kemukakan di atas...lagipun apa yg tatie perhatikan info-info yang dipaparkan berbentuk ilmiah...
http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/salafi2.html |
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Originally posted by serihartatie at 2005-7-26 06:42 PM:
ermm...baru masuk kat thread ni..rupa-rupanya ustaz ada buat thread khusus uk soalan berkaitan Wahabi/Salafi...rupanyer....
oklah ustaz...tatie yg dangkal ilmu ini sebenarnya tidak setanding ...
saya pun dangkal jugak ... banyak yg tak tahu ... kita serupa ... sama2 penuntut ilmu ( طالب العلم ). Apa yg betul kita terima, apa yg salah kita tolak.
Rujukan yg tatie beri tu dlm bahasa Inggeris. Rujukan saya pulak dlm b. Arab. Saya tak boleh terus bagi link sebab takut tatie tak faham ... jadi saya akan terjemahkan utk tatie ... bila terjemah, kena ambik masa sikit lah ... lagipun saya tgh tulis artikel ttg mutaah utk abg bill kita ... sibuk lah sikit.
... tapi kalau saya jumpa link puak2 Wahabi dlm b.i saya akan bubuh.
Wassalam.
[ Last edited by nahzaluz on 26-7-2005 at 11:38 PM ] |
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berkenaan dgn isu: Siapakah mereka ASWJ?, menurut pandangan puak Wahabi kita boleh baca artikel berikut yg saya jumpa kat laman web salafy indon di atas:
http://salafy.or.id/salafy.php?menu=detil&id_artikel=4
===
tatie boleh lah beri link artikel dari sumber tatie ttg siapakah mereka ASWJ ...
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Aiisehh....ustaz! Tak perlu layanlah si Tatie tu yang tak mampu berhujjah tapi cuma setakat nak beri link saja. Kalau nak lawan link-link ni pun nampaknya ustaz pun dah menang tapi kan lebih baik kalau forum ni masing-masing dapat berhujjah berdasarkan kefahaman terhadap apa yang telah dibaca.
Cara link-link ini pun macam cikgu ajar kaedah tradisional saja sedangkan sekarang dah ada berbagai teknik yang lebih berkesan lagi seperti Kajian Masa Depan ataupun Kemahiran Berfikir. Kalau tak mau tulis panjang-panjang buat aja peta minda agar orang lain boleh faham.
Inilah puak-puak xArqam yang masih ketinggalan LRT. Nak masuk bahagian ni pun nampaknya depa kecut. |
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maaf, tumpang laluan...
Kemahiran Berfikir Secara Kritis dan Kreatif... hrmm...
KBKK. |
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Originally posted by pipi at 27-7-2005 09:26 PM:
Kemahiran Berfikir Secara Kritis dan Kreatif... hrmm...
KBKK.
Sekarang ini tak disebut lagi sebagai KBKK sebab kalau dah dikatakan Kemahiran Berfikir ia mestilah mempunyai unsur-unsur kritis dan kreatif. In English we just called it as 'Thinking Skill'. |
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oh... itu maciam ka..... .... thx bro... |
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Originally posted by Gravedigger at 2005-7-27 09:18 PM:
Aiisehh....ustaz! Tak perlu layanlah si Tatie tu yang tak mampu berhujjah tapi cuma setakat nak beri link saja. Kalau nak lawan link-link ni pun nampaknya ustaz pun dah menang tapi k ...
tak apa lah grave. sekurang2nya saya tahu hujah2 mereka mereka ambil kat mana. hujah2 tu nampaknya ada sandaran juga
yg pentingnya kita membaca dari kedua belah pihak sekiranya kita mampu. barulah apa yg kita pegang itu kita rasa kuat sbb kita dah nilai hujah2 berkaitan.
Saya ada satu soalan utk tatie dll. Sekiranya kita mengeluarkan puak2 Wahabi yg mendakwa mereka mengikut fahaman salaf dari kumpulan ASWJ, siapakah yg tinggal dlm ASWJ tu? Siapakah mereka ASWJ setelah kita keluarkan puak2 salaf? Muktazilah? Khawarij? Jabariah? Murjiah? Jahmiyyah? Syiah?
harap tatie dll boleh bagi info kalau ada.
Wassalam. |
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Originally posted by nahzaluz at 28-7-2005 09:21 AM:
yg pentingnya kita membaca dari kedua belah pihak sekiranya kita mampu. barulah apa yg kita pegang itu kita rasa kuat sbb kita dah nilai hujah2 berkaitan.
:setuju::setuju: |
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Originally posted by Gravedigger at 27-7-2005 09:18 PM:
Aiisehh....ustaz! Tak perlu layanlah si Tatie tu yang tak mampu berhujjah tapi cuma setakat nak beri link saja. Kalau nak lawan link-link ni pun nampaknya ustaz pun dah menang tapi k ...
ermm....bapak grave kena faham....apabila kita mahu berhujah dengan orang kita kena pastikan dia juga mengetahui darimana fakta-fakta hujah kita...from where we derived the facts.....
adalah lebih baik dan lebih adil jika kita ajak dia dulu memahami dan memperoleh fakta-fakta yg kita gunakan untuk berhujah....
itu lah cara yang berilmiah....
satu lagik....fakta-fakta hujah di dalam perbincangan ilmiah bukan boleh di diskusi tanpa menyebut darimana sumbernya walaupun utk sekadar satu baris AYAT sahaja. Hatta utk menggunakan perkataan SANGAT, TIDAK BERAPA, LEBIH KURANGpun tidak dibenarkan di dalam penulisan ilmiah kerana ia tidak memberi KETEPATAN makna.
Maka sebab itu, walaupun di thread ini tidak terikat dgn KEILMIAHAN namun tatie menghormati KEILMIAHAN itu dengan memaparkan terus SUMBER FAKTA tersebut supaya tidak menimbulkan kecurigaan pembaca ke atas KESAHIHAN sumber tersebut.
tetapi terimakasihlah kerana mengingatkan tatie supaya belajar-belajar berHUJAH..hehehe...nak tergelak pulak....KBKK....agaknyer sebab KBKKlah budak-budak sekrg dah pandai MENIPU dalam exam dengan MENIRU....dari sek rendah sampai ler kepada pelajar IPT...agak2 yg buat PhDpun ada ke yg meniru ????.....tahap tu dah tak panggil MENIRU dah, depa panggil PLAGIAT....hehehe...
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masalahnyer sekrg baru tatie tahu, bahwa ada masalah bahasa....seperti yg ustaz nahzaluz kata, nampaknya kena translate pula ....itu makan masa ....link yg tatie beri itu walaupun cuma satu link, tapi persoalan mengenai wahabi dan ASWJ dikumpulkan di dalam website itu..ia sangat detail......itu sebab tatie kata kalau nak disimpan semua info itu, kena ada berpuluh-puluh fail...
setiap persoalan yg ustaz nahzaluz beri itu adalah persoalan yg bukan baru..tetapi sudah didiskusi oleh org-org terdahulu....
apa-apapun terimakasih atas url yg ustaz beri itu....
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Siapa AsWJ bila keluarkan syiah, wahabi dll ?....
ASWJ tetap ASWJ...kerana fahaman lain berbeza dari segi iktikad yang disepakati oleh ulamak ASWJ berdasarkan Al Quran, Hadis, Ijmak Ulamak dan Qias.....
Jadi walaupun di dalam ASWJ ada 4 mazhab yg berbeza, perbezaan hanya dari segi soal furukiyah sahaja bukan iktikad...malahan sebenarnya di dalam ASWJ ada beberapa lagi mazhab yg kurang dikenali, dikatakan ada 11 mazhab semuanya di dalam ASWJ.
secara ringkas ajer tatie dapat jawab....tak dak masa ler ustaz...komitmen lain banyak dalam dunia realiti...kalau dah habis belajar nanti, baru boleh tarik nafas panjang.....beginilah hidup seorg pelajar.....:pray:
[ Last edited by serihartatie on 29-7-2005 at 01:22 PM ] |
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http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/salafi2.html
The intention of this page is to expose a tool of the Dajjal which goes by the name of "The Salafi" or "Salafiyya sect" by the presentation of material which will expose them for the devils they are. They are not new to Al-Islam, as they are the Khawarij (Kharijites) under a new name (Wahhabi, Salafi).
These deviants get their so-called "ijtiahds" from deviants such as Al-Albani, Bin Baz, al-Jaza'iri, Mashhur Salman, Abu Aminah Bilal Philips, Mr. Uthaymeen, all of these Khawarij trace back to the payroll of the Saudi clan in Arabia. The chain of their so-called knowledge, and their false love of religion traces back to a dajjal who went by the name of Muhammad bin Abdul-Wahhab, who was a man sponsered, educated, paid, and helped by the British to eradicate the Uthmani (a.k.a. Ottoman) empire, as well as the rest of the Muslim 'Ummah from within. While claiming to be adherents to "authentic" Sunnah, these deviants are quick to label anyone who opposes their beliefs or follows a mathhab as "sufi," while exploiting the Muslims' love for Islam by overexaggerating the phrase "Qur'an and Sunnah" in their senseless rhetoric.
NOTE: Their definition of "authentic Sunnah" is that which suits their lifestyle as outlined by their "scholars," such as Ibn Taymiya, al-Albani, Bin Baz, and Uthaymeen.
Their prey:
Those Muslims who are undereducated in regards of their Deen
Those who have just become a Muslim.
Those who are young and wish to compromise their Deen for the sake of Western philosophy and "The American Way."
Those who seek a reason (actually, an excuse) for rebelling against their parents and community.
Shaytaan (the devil) is also known as "ash-Shaykh an-Najdi", a title given to him by Rasulullah (Allah's peace and blessings upon him). Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab is also deemed with the EXACT SAME title, "ash-Shaykh an-Najdi," by the Ahl as-Sunnah 'Ummah. Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhab was raised in the wastelands of Najd in central Arabia, and had very little access to mainstream Muslim scholarship.
His Islamic "knowledge", as well as "aqeeda," was derived from the Mu'tazila and Khawarij sect, while he claimed to be a Hanbali in Fiqh, but his thinking, ideology, and belief was such that only he alone was Muslim, and everyone else was a mushrik (polytheist).
In his writings, he specifically titled ALL of the Ahlus-Sunnah as being polytheists (mushrik). Under this guise, he said (and all Wahhabi's/Najdi's/Salafi's still BELIEVE) that the killing of the Ahlus-Sunnah was permissible.
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tatie tidak translate sebab tatie rasa website ini guna BI biasa sahaja....tidak menjadi masalah utk memahaminya... |
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Originally posted by serihartatie at 29-7-2005 09:13 AM:
tetapi terimakasihlah kerana mengingatkan tatie supaya belajar-belajar berHUJAH..hehehe...nak tergelak pulak....KBKK....agaknyer sebab KBKKlah budak-budak sekrg dah pandai MENIPU dalam exam dengan MENIRU....dari sek rendah sampai ler kepada pelajar IPT...agak2 yg buat PhDpun ada ke yg meniru ????.....tahap tu dah tak panggil MENIRU dah, depa panggil PLAGIAT....hehehe...
Ini hujjah ilmiah ker? Apa bukti? Pernah buat kajian tentang kaitan Kemahiran Berfikir dan kes meniru? Atau dah ada sarjana-sarjana membuat kajian tentang tu? Dah berapa lama KBKK diperkenalkan dalam sistem pendidikan kita sehingga mengatakan sampai peringkat PhD ?
Lain kali kalau makcik tak jelas jangan main hentam keromo saja tuduhan tu. Ini saja dah membuktikan betapa taklid buta membuatkan kejumudan seseorang tu serta tidak dapat menggunakan akalnya ditempat yang betul. Tak waras namanya.
Jangan dok main ikut dan hangguk saja apa yang si Asaari cakap tu. |
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... kalau tatie dah buat satu2 macam tu lebih mudah. Saya try tengok jwpn puak Wahabi dlm kitab/website mereka. Kemudian kita nilai. Pendapat yg bercanggah dgn Qur'an dan Sunnah kita tolak.
Saya rasa dlm perbincangan ini pendapat Ibnu Taimiyyah, Ibnul Qayyim, Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab dan ulama'2 dari Arab Saudi dikira mewakili puak Wahabi. Tatie setuju tak dgn kenyataan ini? |
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belut This user has been deleted
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The Quran condemns all sects. All sects in Islam, whether Sunni, Shias, Ahmaddis, Ismailli......etc have disagreements about hadith and sunnah attributed to the prophet. However, these same sects have no disagreements about the Quran.
It is sources of religious law, stories, conjecture, etc. outside the Quran which have created these sects. At the end of this article three "authentic" hadith have been produced about the last sermon of the prophet. The different versions/conjecture gave rise to sects.
Nation of Islam, a large political group for African American, although have achieved a great political gain for the African Americans in the USA, they produced their own sources other than the Quran and follow other sources besides the Quran for religious laws. This is completely codemned in the TRUE Islam. Many of the followers of the Nation of Islam however are more acceptable to the TRUE Islam (Submission) when they get exposed to it as most of them are well educated and intelligent. Like all the other
sects as soon as the followers of the Nation of Islam decide to follow ONLY the word of God in the Quran for religious law and leave the words of man for political moves ,they will find the truth and be guided. .See our section about Hadith and Quran .
These sects of Islam ( Sunni, Shias, Ahmaddis, NOI....etc.) do exactly the same thing - they follow sources and religious scholars, instead of the Quran.
[6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with
you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform
them of everything they had done.
[30:32] (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide
their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what
they have.
[42:14] Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the
knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and
resentment among themselves. If it were not for a
predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for
a definite interim, they would have been judged
immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited
the scripture are full of doubts.
The last sermon of the prophet witnessed by the thousands has
three versions. The versions the references are listed below.
1) I leave with you Quran and Sunnah
Muwatta, 46/3
2) I leave with you Quran and Ahl al-bayt
Muslim 44/4, Nu2408; ibn hanbal 4/366; darimi 23/1, nu 3319.
3) I leave you for the Quran alone you shall uphold it.
Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56.
Because the majority of the Muslims follow conjecture (hadith and
sunnah) instead of Quran alone (17:46) as our Creator has
commanded the "Muslims" are divided into sects. These sects are
there because of differences and disagreements on Hadith rather
than disagreements over the Quran. |
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Please Belut.....
harap jangan ganggu perbincangan ini. Thread ini berkenaan pertentangan antara ASWJ dan Wahabi. Lebih baik dikhususkan pada tajuk ini saja so tak lari daripada point.
On one side si Tatie yang menjadi pengkagum Asaari Muhammad dalam Syarikat Rufaqa serta pengamal tasauk dan on the other side Nahzaluz yang menerangkan fahaman wahabi yang berbeza dengan salafi. |
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Post time 25-7-2005 12:12 AM
变色卡
Author
