Plain Truth

barney50

[code] responded by Obersliutenant :Galloway isnt muslim... if he is then what woud be his muslim name?

If he is not a muslim than how is he married to a muslim women? May be kahwin lari kot atau pun khwain koboi....Why ask me man, go do your search and come up with an answer. As far as we know if he is married to a Musim woman surely he is a Muslim and comon sense would tell you that. Do you expect him to declare to the world that he is a Muslim? Is that more important now? But we know that he is a Musim sympathizer and he is being financed by Muslim organizations to speak aganst the British government. When money speaks and truth is hidden.

Obersliutenant

well violence cant be rated as being worser than the other, in my view any form of violence is truly deregatory and should be condemmed at all terms ,  so the questions remains ... woud you blame Hinduism on behalf of the actions of these individuals? yes or no? i for myself woudnt blame the entire religion over a group of nut heads.. and they are probably fanatics and racialists that cant tolerate anything else but themselves...

barney50

1. responded by Obersliutenant: well violence cant be rated as being worser than the other, in my view any form of violence is truly deregatory and should be condemmed at all terms ,  so the questions remains ... woud you blame Hinduism on behalf of the actions of these individuals? yes or no? i for myself woudnt blame the entire religion over a group of nut heads.. and they are probably fanatics and racialists that cant tolerate anything else but themselves...

Copy the Code

Why would I blame Hinduism? They are not fighting in the name of Hinduism. As amtter of fact these freedom fighters are of various denominations. There are Hindu Tamils, Christian tamils and Muslim Tamils, so it is obvious their aim is to fight the oppressor and not in any religious manner. In the case of all the Islamic terrorist groups their symbol is Islam and they call Allah and recite the Quranic verses when sliting the throats of their victims. Now you tell me if it was not the teaching of Islam that their action reflects.

i212

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Obersliutenant

its all due to interpretation of the text ...its a long topic to elaborate here and im sure that i have elaborated it before; Barney, have you heard about the science of signs? the study of semionology? If you have actually read the Quran more properly , you will find that the Quran is a book of signs, tell me how do you interpret a metaphor? like pictures, words can be utilised to create abstract sentences and you would need more than a first glance to get an answer, to read between the lines. Tell me how woud you interpret abstract art and poems  for instance? it is impossible if i get the same answer if i ask everyone in a room to give me their personalised opinion of an abstract painting, or a poem. So here we have many different interpretation based on the one book ... here again i stress again , one's flawed interpretation of the text does not mean that it is endorsed by the religion. And usually a true meaning of an abstract art..., ppl woud refer to the author, the painter, the creator of that substance ...but in the case of the Quran...

Well only God( the author) knows...

[ Last edited by  Obersliutenant at 9-10-2006 05:49 PM ]

loona

Originally posted by Obersliutenant at 9-10-2006 05:47 PM
its all due to interpretation of the text ...its a long topic to elaborate here and im sure that i have elaborated it before; Barney, have you heard about the science of signs? the study of semiono ...

he wont understand because he doest want to understand

so it is obvious their aim is to fight the oppressor and not in any religious manner. In the case of all the Islamic terrorist groups their symbol is Islam and they call Allah and recite the Quranic verses when sliting the throats of their victims. Now you tell me if it was not the teaching of Islam that their action reflects.

If you were my enemy in a war zone, i also will be slitting your throat, and would be calling the name of Allah! Dont you get the point here

barney50

1. responded by Obersliutenant :its all due to interpretation of the text ...its a long topic to elaborate here and im sure that i have elaborated it before; Barney, have you heard about the science of signs? the study of semionology? If you have actually read the Quran more properly , you will find that the Quran is a book of signs, tell me how do you interpret a metaphor? like pictures, words can be utilised to create abstract sentences and you would need more than a first glance to get an answer, to read between the lines. Tell me how woud you interpret abstract art and poems  for instance? it is impossible if i get the same answer if i ask everyone in a room to give me their personalised opinion of an abstract painting, or a poem. So here we have many different interpretation based on the one book ... here again i stress again , one's flawed interpretation of the text does not mean that it is endorsed by the religion. And usually a true meaning of an abstract art..., ppl woud refer to the author, the painter, the creator of that substance ...but in the case of the Quran...
   
2. 
   
3. Well only God( the author) knows...

Copy the Code

You have good way of putting it and that's what I too have been trying explain to loonies here but my way is crude and that makes them piss off. But I have to be blunt at it and it's my way of syaing it. Too many cooks have spoiled the soup and the result is what we see today. One says killing an apostate is mentioned in the Quran and the other says no. Than there is one interpretations that says infidels should be delth with death while the other says they had taken out of contex. To many interpretation and the themsleves are confused. You should read Dr. Syed Alwai's somment regarding the hadith. But as fars as I can see only the moderate Muslims know how to be rational and understand the believers of other faith. It is not that I'm against Muslims believing in their Quran and religion. By all means but Muslism to must respect the believe of others. Do you know how my religion was degraded by some morons here? If they have the right to belittle my faith surely I have my right to ridicule their belief. As far as I know and understand no religion is superior to another.

Each have their respective ways to approach the Supreme Being in whatever name they would like to call Him. Muslims just go to the Mosque and offer their prayers while Hindus offer their respect and prayers by way of offering flowers and fruits and Christian too offer flowers and sya their prayers and so do the others. Religion is a way to GOD and that way have may paths. Muslims have their and we have ours so why are Muslims so adament on syaing oonly theirs is the only right path. When they say this it means they condemn all others which is insensitive. Our religious leaders do not say ours is the only right path when they preach. But why must Muslims say such a thing in a multiracial country?

The government too is insensitive to others. It  allowes national telecast on intervies of new converts to Islam from Chinese and Indian communities. Would you like if we too do the same when Muslims  convert to Christianity or other religion? Surely you would not like such but its ok if it is the other way round. We have been silent all the while because we  do not want to create an issue and cause unrest in our own country. Malaysia is a peaceful country as long as we respect and undestand each other but there is limit to our understanding and beyond that one has to speak his mind. We do not shout or go in groups to warn any Hindus, Christians or Buddhist who convert to Islam. We do not call for fatwa to kill apostates of Hindus, Christians or Buddhist but when a Muslim converts to Christianity can you see the comotion and critics by Muslims in this country? Ponder over this while you are in your quite moments in bed.

Obersliutenant

fatwas for killing opostates ? now now there, well you see sometimes ppl get emotional ... i certainly wont do that if i were to be a head of state...and its understandable the bridge frm christian converts to Islam too have been a rough spectacle in Sabah.but i think that muslims themselves have to try as hard as they could to improve as a rational society, if they want to retain their way of life and be an example to other muslims and other religions and not by threatening them and segala..

about apostates...well consultations towards a convert may occur as allowed to but if there are no means of convincing the individual of changing his religion to sth else well then we should leave it to God and leave the individual to their decision, the only thing we can do after that is pray for a change of heart

Obersliutenant

Originally posted by loona at 9-10-2006 07:09 PM


he wont understand because he doest want to understand





If you were my enemy in a war zone, i also will be slitting your throat, and would be calling the name of Allah! Dont you get t ...

true enough, ppl pray before going to war , not only in Islam but in christianity ... if you watch band of brothers, its a perfect example how christians remember Christ by doing the cross thing with their fingers on their head and chest( i dont know what's this called); in world war 2 they have priests and chaplains addresing the soldiers before they go to war... and they all prayed to their Lord and carry crosses around their necks.  i dont know about Hindus.. but im sure they too have a prayer session for soldiers before gg to war...

barney50

1. responded by Obersliutenant:true enough, ppl pray before going to war , not only in Islam but in christianity ... if you watch band of brothers, its a perfect example how christians remember Christ by doing the cross thing with their fingers on their head and chest( i dont know what's this called); in world war 2 they have priests and chaplains addresing the soldiers before they go to war... and they all prayed to their Lord and carry crosses around their necks.  i dont know about Hindus.. but im sure they too have a prayer session for soldiers before gg to war...

Copy the Code

Hindus did during the vedict time but not now. India is a plural society and one has to pray in heart in his respectuve native language. But that is war aganinst an invading forces but what the terrorist are doing is totally different kind of war. Sneak into a country set the bomb and declare "ALLAHUAKHBAR". That is not war but terrorism in the name of Allah.

and what about the christians? they do the cross thingy with their hands as ober noted