Kemusykilan: Kawin Kerna PR

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by i212 at 10/18/06 10:56 PM
ermmm... nape ko nak stay sana ha?.... saja nak bz body.. hehehehe

sorry, tgh nak reply skali server down la plak.

:hmm: tu adalah salah satu soklan yang aku tanye pada diri aku, whether aku patut stay atau tak (kalo dapat keje la).

antara sebabnya (not arranged according to importance):

1) Duit - a fresh graduate with an engineering degree is usually paid around USD 5000/month in my area, for an engineering position. it's usually more than entry-level non-engineering positions. and obviously more than i can make in Malaysia. Of course the cost of living is higher. But as a bachelor, $800/mo for apartment rent and $1000 for other necessities should be enough. After tax and stuff, I should be able to at least save $1000/mo. And that's in USD. In Malaysia, as far as I know, usually we're paid RM2800/mo. Saving even RM1000 a month would be pretty hard. Here in the States, I can buy a decent used car with my first paycheck, cash. So in terms of money, I can make a lot more here.

2) Personal history - There are places in Malaysia that I just don't want to see anymore. It's too heartbreaking. Time changes, people change, relationships change. And I can't live with that. It's hard to explain this. But just know that it feels ok not to be able to see some people because we're located far apart, rather than because we're emotionally distant.

3) Job market - True that it's relatively hard for non-citizens or non-PR to get a job here in the States. But I'll never know what kind of job I can get in Malaysia until I go back. So since i'm already here, I figured that maybe I should try my luck here first.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by sedondon at 10/18/06 11:33 PM
Ko keje ker buat business di US tu?

nak keje.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by hi5 at 10/20/06 09:20 AM
Kalau nak tahu, di UK orang Muslim pakistani ada buat agreement kawin dgn anak pompuan diorang kalau sesiapa nak dapar PR..bayar dlm 3000-5000pounds.

hmm, tapi dorang tu akan akad nikah ke? or just on government papers?

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by Nara_Gaara at 10/21/06 04:32 PM
Abih tu girl tu akan convert tak?Walaupun sekadar atas kertas,tapi ia tetap PERKAHWINAN kan?Ko akan kawin as a muslim or not?Bagi aku,tindakan ni seolah2 mempersendakan Islam dan nilai sebuah perkahwinan.

no, girl tu takkan convert. in fact, i'm against conversion solely for marriage.
Yes, atas kertas government, ia adalah perkahwinan. but it's not gonna be registered with pejabat agama or something like that, no akad nikah involved. So, since takde akad  nikah, the girl doesn't have to be a muslim.

But the problem here is whether or not perkahwinan civil is prohibited in Islam (even if the girl is a muslim), if the couple is not planning to live like a married couple. yes, tindakan ini mempersendakan nilai civil marriage ikut undang-undang US (the same right that gays want). But i'm not sure about whether ia mempersendakan Islam, and why.

antiQue

Things for you to ponder... secara umum mengikut mazhab yg diikuti oleh rata-rata penduduk Islam Malaysia, kita akan kata perkahwinan tu tak sah, sekadar on paper saja... tapi jangan juga lupa, perkara ni ada khilaf antara mazhab... jadi, jangan ambil mudah juga...

1) Jika ikut mazhab Hanafi, perkahwinan cara gitu yg kamu buat register saja tu dah mencukupi untuk constitute a legal marriage, if the girl is a muslim, coz under Hanafi, tak perlu untuk perempuan ada wali, selagimana dia merupakan perempuan yg waras dan bukan kanak-kanak. Cukup sekadar ada aqad dan perpautan antara keduanya.

2) If the girl is either Jew or Christian, ada ulama yg berpendapat mereka jatuh dalam kategori ahli kitab yg layak dinikahi lelaki Muslim.

Though perkara-perkara tersebut ada khilaf yg besar, pada saya jangan ambil mudah. Pandangan manusia tidak semestinya sama dengan pandangan Tuhan.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by antiQue at 10/22/06 04:14 AM
Things for you to ponder... secara umum mengikut mazhab yg diikuti oleh rata-rata penduduk Islam Malaysia, kita akan kata perkahwinan tu tak sah, sekadar on paper saja... tapi jangan juga lupa, perkara ni ada khilaf antara mazhab... jadi, jangan ambil mudah juga...

interesting points. :tq:

antiQue

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 22-10-2006 08:21 PM


interesting points. :tq:

I am merely stating that points in case terjadi perkara sambil lewa di kemudian hari. In the case where you really marry that girl secara sivil dan menganggap perkahwinan tu tak sah and you have nothing to do with her. Tapi apa natijahnya sekiranya perkahwinan tersebut menjadi sah di sisi Tuhan (I say in case), lalu apa akan terjadi pada tanggungjawab dan hak-hak yg mungkin diabaikan?

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by antiQue at 10/22/06 05:24 AM

Tapi apa natijahnya sekiranya perkahwinan tersebut menjadi sah di sisi Tuhan (I say in case), lalu apa akan terjadi pada tanggungjawab dan hak-hak yg mungkin diabaikan?  

yup, tu antara perkara yang kena consider.

ron_amigos7

Originally posted by antiQue at 22-10-2006 01:24 PM


I am merely stating that points in case terjadi perkara sambil lewa di kemudian hari. In the case where you really marry that girl secara sivil dan menganggap perkahwinan tu tak sah and you hav ...

Salam to brother antique

aku masih meragui tentang perkahwinan yang di sahkan antara lelaki muslim dengan perempuan kristian/yahudi. dalam islam dibenarkan, jadik persoalannya adakah tanggungjawab sebagai suami isteri dimana lelaki muslim mengamalkan islam dan perempuan kristian mengamalkan kristianitinya?
apekah perlu kita melarang isteri pergi ke gereja dan menyambut krismas? sebab sepengetahuan saya perkahwinan campur ni tak melarang mana pihak menganuti agama masing²..
saya ingin penjelasan yang lebih jelas pada suma brother musliman yang arif..terima kasih

petola

Bean,
setakat yg saya tahu perkahwinan di US (under the perview of states laws) ada dua peringkat.

1. lesen untuk berkahwin
2. marriage ceremony

yg 1. itu boleh diperoleh pada bila2 masa apabila semua syarat dipenuhi... dan ia hanya merupakan lesen untuk berkahwin saja... bukan suatu pengesahan perkahwinan. Kena laksanakan perkara 2. yg disahkan oleh proper official (judge, religious official etc.) sebelum perkahwinan itu dianggap legally sah.

walaupun consummation (having sex) generally dianggap sebagai pengesahan sesuatu perkahwinan, tetapi ia bukanlah sesuatu yg mesti dilakukan...

so ko kena lepasi sekurang2nya proses 1. dan 2. di atas. My personal opinion is, it is a valid marriage walaupun u nak anggap ia a farse. Lainlah kalau u manage to tell everybody including the marriage office and the officials (baik yg keluarkan lesen dan yang conduct ceremony) yang semua itu hanya wayang saja for the purpose of getting the green card.

kalau u nak buat juga, pada saya u akan menginjak2 semua peraturan, semua autoriti sama ada negara (walaupun negera orang tetapi bukankah di mana bumi dipijak di situ langit dijunjung) atau agama (be it yours or your spouse's), semua prinsip dan etika, for the sole purpose of... money. Sanggup?

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by petola at 10/27/06 05:45 PM
Bean,
setakat yg saya tahu perkahwinan di US (under the perview of states laws) ada dua peringkat.

1. lesen untuk berkahwin
2. marriage ceremony

yg 1. itu boleh diperoleh pada bila2 masa ap ...

hmm, about perkara 2, tu aku kurang sure. aku rasa tu la yang officialkan marriage tu. so, any certified people yang bole kawinkan (priest ke, ship captain etc). but since the govt cannot expect the couple to be religious (since the separation of state and church), than the ceremony doesn't have to be religious.

about the ceremony itself, aku rasa bukan cam kerja kawin. i mean, what if the couple doesn't have that much money? so, the govt can't make kerja kawin compulsory. the ceremony is to me just the official marriage conducted by some certified people.

ha, ni ade satu link aku jumpe.

http://www.drivethruidos.com/
Q: What do I need to bring with me to do this?
A: For a marriage ceremony you will need to bring your Tennessee marriage license, which you can get from the courthouse Monday through Saturday. After the ceremony, our minister will sign your license, which makes it official; we will then file it with the courthouse, which makes it LEGAL in all states and countries.

so, pada aku, perkara 2 tu just to make it legal, and it only takes 3 people present at the ceremony, and doesn't have to be religious at all.

p/s: sorry tak leh type bebanyak. tangan kananku cedera.

[ Last edited by  BeanDiesel at 28-10-2006 03:02 AM ]

NURMIMIE

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 28-10-2006 06:59 PM

about the ceremony itself, aku rasa bukan cam kerja kawin. i mean, what if the couple doesn't have that much money? so, the govt can't make kerja kawin compulsory. the ceremony is to me just the official marriage conducted by some certified people.

so, pada aku, perkara 2 tu just to make it legal, and it only takes 3 people present at the ceremony, and doesn't have to be religious at all.

p/s: sorry tak leh type bebanyak. tangan kananku cedera.

tang no. 1 aku tak der hal.. aku berpendapat, ianya tak apa kalau sekadar atas paper saja.. u sign n done. perkahwinan secara civil nih hanya melindungi kepentingan kedua2 pihak dari segi hak2 suami isteri terutama dalam hal2 berkaitan harta atau urusan civil jugak.. tidak berkaitan dengan 'akad' coz pada kita, syarat sah nikah tuh ada laah lafaz dalam niat 'akad' nya..

tapi tang no. 2 tuh..

tang nih yang you kena be careful brader.. kalau boleh u tengok betul2 procedure depa.. walaupun ceremony ringkas, dan tidak nampak mcm religious sanggat, it does not mean ianya tidak religious. the official marriage conducted by some certified people? who is the people? the priest? or jurunikah? then there akan ada 'akad' samada with word 'aku terima nikahnya bla bla'.. or ' I DO' .. rite?

good luck!

faraway

kahwin sivil ni once bercerai kelak... u kena bayar alimoni ke tidak kat ex..
and its long way to go.. she kena sponsor U.. berapa tahun yea kat US.. canada 3 tahun..
dan kalau imigresen found out, bukan U aje susah.. dia jugak..
dan kebarangkalian cinta wujud atau tak selepas itu.....

DARSITA

Jangan nak mengarut kawin macm ni sebab ...

1. Dkt LA utk dpt lesen kawin take time.
2. lepas dapat lesen kawin you kena pergi satu office. Situ ada satu officer yang akan kawin kan you mengikut cara KRISTIAN! siap ada mention holy spirit bagai. Lepas tu kena kiss (kiss ni pun dah kira berdosa besar tau!) tukar cincin etc etc.

Bila you hantar application to get the PR ... soalan interview tu mcm mcm. Dari drawer simpan stokin sampailah kpd makanan fav your couple etc etc. Kalau dpt PR ... dia bagi tempoh 2 tahun. Kalau dlm masa 2 tahun ni you bercerai dgn wife palsu hang tu ..PR ditarik balik. You akan kena hukuman.


Kalau your grade bagus ~ buat apa nak kawin dan dptkan PR lagu ni? I suggest ~ sesambil tunggu result keluar apply kerja. Company yang minat dgn perkhidmatan you akan sponsor you for few years. Dia orang akan buat green card. Tak payah pening kepala dgn kawin cerai ni.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by NURMIMIE at 10/29/06 02:33 PM
then there akan ada 'akad' samada with word 'aku terima nikahnya bla bla'.. or ' I DO' .. rite?

:hmm: i have to look into that.

BeanDiesel

Originally posted by DARSITA at 10/29/06 04:26 PM

1. Dkt LA utk dpt lesen kawin take time.

definitely, since it's been heavily abused.

2. lepas dapat lesen kawin you kena pergi satu office. Situ ada satu officer yang akan kawin kan you mengikut cara KRISTIAN! siap ada mention holy spirit bagai. Lepas tu kena kiss (kiss ni pun dah kira berdosa besar tau!) tukar cincin etc etc.

i don't think so. it may be just an option. otherwise non-Christians won't be able to legalize their marriages here.

Kalau your grade bagus ~ buat apa nak kawin dan dptkan PR lagu ni? I suggest ~ sesambil tunggu result keluar apply kerja. Company yang minat dgn perkhidmatan you akan sponsor you for few years. Dia orang akan buat green card. Tak payah pening kepala dgn kawin cerai ni.  

yup. i just got a job recently. :D and the company will apply H1B for me. and hopefully later on PR too.

monterez

Originally posted by Notwongjowo at 19-10-2006 09:10 AM
Anda telah mempermainkan agama. Anda telah mengadaikan keuntungan akhirat yang maha luas kerana untuk mendapat keuntungan dunia yang sempit. Institusi perkakwinan dalam Islam bukan barang mainan! ...

agree with ur statement..
jgn sbb nak dptkan keuntungan dunia kita abaikan akhirat
sbb ni dah involve perkahwinan, on paper u n dia husband n wife, in future i takut ada prob sbb dr segi law both of u husband n wife, mana tau ada prob in future or ur wife nak claim apa2 ke dr u, ikut law dia ada hak

monterez

and kenapa tak balik malaysia je? if u are  malaysian then balik n help ur country..
itu lagi bagus dr u pening2 kepala fikir benda ni.