Ismail or Isyak ?!

Nick_Perelman

Originally posted by anti_aktivis at 28-12-2006 01:16 PM

Errrr I am the one who offtopic?

Ki ki , I am not the one who talk about monkey?

You should work in National Georgaphics. Make sounds there.

BTW , as far as I know , if we really study this thread , question already anwsered by Karengkang (good job).

He did not answer single question. He made baseless statements and tried to switch topic like you do.

Question also try to be anwsered by you . And as far as I know , I am questioning the reliability of your source when u try to anwser.

I answered his question. He stucked and started to go in sircles.

The reason is everyone know , hebrew bible content problem. Now the question is , u want me to proof my point?

Reason is simple. Bible leads countries to success and prosperity (you are writing your messages using technology developed by Bible believers). Koran on the other hand leads countries to poverty. Bible brought tonns of new things, Koran did not bring anything new. Koran versions of stories cant explan many issues, Bible versiuons easily can explain. You feel jealous and thats why you attack the Bible in every topic.

Now create a new topic and put your ideas there. It will be fun to kick ur ass once again.

[ Last edited by  Nick_Perelman at 28-12-2006 08:40 PM ]

Nick_Perelman

Originally posted by karengkang at 28-12-2006 04:29 PM

oh really ?

let me refresh u back

Gen 21:14-15
14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

15And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.


cast ??
some version says "cast"...some version says "put"
can u tell me what is that means ??  

Hebrew version has "tishlakh" that literally means "to send away". So what's ur point?

Originally posted by karengkang at 28-12-2006 04:06 PM


heh...
okay, lets take YOUR EXAMPLE here :nerd:

and guess what..
years later God said "Take your son, your only son, Isaac...."

if this is really the word of God..
i would sa ...

I've already  answered your question. Why you repeat it again like parrot? After answering your question you gave some example with car, and I answered it as well. You could nothig to say on it and instead return back to original already answered question.

I will repeat my questions that you and your buddies could not answer:

1) Why Ishmael and his mom were kicked, while Isaac with Abraham and Sarah remained in Holy Land.
2) Why Ishmael's descendants vecame pagans while Isaacs remained monotheists.
3) Why God firts signed covenant with Isaac - youngest son and not with Ishmael - oldest.

Bible version easily explains all 3 questions. Islamic version can't.

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 28-12-2006 08:24 PM


You said
[quote]You should work in National Georgaphics. Make sounds there.

Yes I am in the National Georgapik , Now I am filming doc about ur mum and dad. Ki ki ki

He did not answer single question. He made baseless statements and tried to switch topic like you do.
He did not answer single question. He made baseless statements and tried to switch topic like you do

.

Who say he did not anwser , who say he anwser wrongly? Only u. No others. As far as I know , he anwser right , and his source also reliable. Not like u , u use unreliable source.

Reason is simple. Bible leads countries to success and prosperity (you are writing your messages using technology developed by Bible believers). Koran on the other hand leads countries to poverty. Bible brought tonns of new things, Koran did not bring anything new. Koran versions of stories cant explan many issues, Bible versiuons easily can explain. You feel jealous and thats why you attack the Bible in every topic.

Now create a new topic and put your ideas there. It will be fun to kick ur ass once again.

Kah kah which christian country success and prosperty? US? errr dude , R u sure US is a christian country? US the nuker , ki ki ki

Or UK? Ki ki , r u sure? Ki ki ,


First bible , stuck , then hebrew bible , also stuck , now bible again , almost stuck. Main reason bible full of problem. Guess what , u did not dare to challenge me to proof my claim about bible full of error. What a pity,

Nick_Perelman

Originally posted by anti_aktivis at 29-12-2006 08:54 AM
Ki ki ki

No comments.

Who say he did not anwser , who say he anwser wrongly? Only u. No others. As far as I know , he an ...

Let me to refresh your memory:

Question: Why Ishmael and his mom were kicked, while Isaac with Abraham and Sarah remained in Holy Land.
So called "answer": yeah rite.. there also contradictions in that "mocking" verse..  but i don't want to discuss it now

Question: Why Ishmael's descendants became pagans while Isaacs remained monotheists.
So called "answer": please show me which verse said that Ishmael became pagan ?

Question: Why God firts signed covenant with Isaac - youngest son and not with Ishmael - oldest.
Nothing.

As you see, no single question was answered.

Kah kah which christian country success and prosperty? US? errr dude , R u sure US is a christian country? US the nuker , ki ki ki

You did not know, that overwhelming majority of US population are Christians?

Guess what , u did not dare to challenge me to proof my claim about bible full of error. What a pity,

Seems you are not only making the sounds of monkey, but you also have an intelligence of monkey. I challanged you: if you want to discuss contradictions, open a new thread. I wont let you to drive this topic away from your confusion.

all the best,
Nick

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 29-12-2006 10:36 AM

No comments.


Let me to refresh your memory:

Question: Why Ishmael and his mom were kicked, while Isaac with Abraham and Sarah remained in Holy Land.
So called "answer": yeah ri ...

Let me to refresh your memory:

Question: Why Ishmael and his mom were kicked, while Isaac with Abraham and Sarah remained in Holy Land.
So called "answer": yeah rite.. there also contradictions in that "mocking" verse..  but i don't want to discuss it now

Question: Why Ishmael's descendants became pagans while Isaacs remained monotheists.
So called "answer": please show me which verse said that Ishmael became pagan ?

Question: Why God firts signed covenant with Isaac - youngest son and not with Ishmael - oldest.
Nothing.

As you see, no single question was answered.

U should do tuning on ur head , I believe.

Read post 7,22 24,37

You did not know, that overwhelming majority of US population are Christians?

Ki ki ki ki , r u sure? Ki ki ki , what a sick joke.

Seems you are not only making the sounds of monkey, but you also have an intelligence of monkey. I challanged you: if you want to discuss contradictions, open a new thread. I wont let you to drive this topic away from your confusion

Errr if not mistaken I have open many thread showing contradiction in bible (which u use to suppport ur argumen here , consider ur source is not reliable). I feel funny u did not dare to participate in my thread regarding error in bible.

Debmey

The truth is very simple and logical.
Islam or Muhamad himself has no legitimacy because neither his leanage nor ancient scriptures backed his prophethood.
In order to gain vain legitimacy, the Arabs began to fancy themselves as descendents of Ismail when there is absolutely no proof to connect these two people. They also tried to change the story of Abrham's sacrifice of Isaac with Ismail.

Four very natural questions are then begged if Ismail was the one who was brought to the sacrificed.

1. Why did God then use a whole string of Hebrews which are descendents of Isaac to be prophets before Muhamad?
2. Why did God not punish the Arabs who were pagans since they have strayed from the faith according to muslim logic?
3. Since Muslims claim that the Hebrews have strayed, why then did they not help their brothers back to the right path rather than  to persecute them? Why would allah who is a merciful and compassionate God wnat to oppress his own people?
4. Why are muslims persecuting Jews for alledgely straying when they themselves have obviously strayed earlier?

I know what antiaktivis is gonna do. He will refuse to answer and then spam this thread with trivials so that others will not get to read this post. but I will simply cut and paste it again and again until every muslim sees it. No problem.

cheers and peace to all and merry Christmas.

Nick_Perelman

Originally posted by anti_aktivis at 29-12-2006 11:39 AM

U should do tuning on ur head , I believe.

Read post 7,22 24,37

I checked, there is no any answers there. There were some attacks on Bible that I already answered.

Errr if not mistaken I have open many thread showing contradiction in bible (which u use to suppport ur argumen here , consider ur source is not reliable). I feel funny u did not dare to participate in my thread regarding error in bible.

Open a new thread and tell me Torah contradictions or whatever you wanted to tell me.

Robotech

Islam or Muhamad himself has no legitimacy because neither his leanage nor ancient scriptures backed his prophethood.

There's a Bible known as Injil Barnabas that foretold the coming of prophet Muhammad. Of course, Christians refuted this.

In order to gain vain legitimacy, the Arabs began to fancy themselves as descendents of Ismail when there is absolutely no proof to connect these two people. They also tried to change the story of Abrham's sacrifice of Isaac with Ismail.

And Jews fancies themselves coming from Isaac, eh?  What a bull. The story that both Jews & Arabs shared a common ancestry are a real one, that's why both Arabs & Jews are considered Semitic lineage.

Robotech

1. Why did God then use a whole string of Hebrews which are descendents of Isaac to be prophets before Muhamad?

Last time I checked, Adam & Noah are not Jews.

Ishmael after he was left in Mecca valley together with Hagar, married a nomadic Jurhum tribe woman whose tribe resettled in Mecca valley & later on evolved into Quraysh tribe by the time of prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Well now, when did God specifically stated that a prophet must be a Jew, eh? Why the majority of Jews today continued to ignore Jesus? You tell me?

In Quran, God send many prophet to Jewish tribes because they loved to trangress against God's words, & commits heinous paganistic elements more than onec even after God's long line of prophets tried to bring them & reveal God's true path. Heck, the Jews killed several prophets, most notably John the Baptist (Yahya pbuh) & Zachariah (Zakaria pbuh) & try to betray Moses (Musa pbuh), Aaron (Harun pbuh) & finally, betraying Jesus (Isa Al-Masih pbuh).

Now you know why the tribe of Israel is a lost cause ...

[ Last edited by  Robotech at 29-12-2006 09:30 PM ]

Robotech

2. Why did God not punish the Arabs who were pagans since they have strayed from the faith according to muslim logic?

Ever wonder why God didn't punished the Jews for the crimes they committed towards John the Baptist, Zachariah & Jesus. You're saying?

Robotech

3. Since Muslims claim that the Hebrews have strayed, why then did they not help their brothers back to the right path rather than  to persecute them? Why would allah who is a merciful and compassionate God wnat to oppress his own people?

Well, the Christians believed that the ews have strayed ... but why then the Christians did not help their brothers back to the right path instead of persecuting them during the Crusades, Inquisition & of course by Christian Nazi Germany? Why would a Christian God who is you yourself would claim merciful & compassionate & loving God want to oppress 'His' people?

Besides, Muslims didn't believe Allah has a 'people'. Christians do, which means Jesus who is Son of God, who is God which is Father God, with divine Holy Ghost as a God, which three of 'em equal into one unifying God, has his own people known as the Israelites. Now ... how about the majority of Christians who're not by linaege come from Jewish DNA stock?

Robotech

4. Why are muslims persecuting Jews for alledgely straying when they themselves have obviously strayed earlier?

Why Christians persecuted Jews for allegedly straying when obviously they themselves strayed to from monotheistic faith?

In recorded history, the Christian persecuted the Jewish nation far more aggressively than Islam. Now, why must you be biased eh?

Debmey

There's a Bible known as Injil Barnabas that foretold the coming of prophet Muhammad. Of course, Christians refuted this.

Well, everybody knows GOB is a hoax. Even Muslims schorlars dismiss this gospel Barnabas thing because it contradicts Islam. It seems like you are not even aware of your own Islamic teachings nor what was written in the GOB.
GOB is just another lame attempt by Muslims to place legitimacy to Mo抯 prophethood because they realized he had none. Same case as this Ismail sacrifice thingy, exposed as a hoax.

And Jews fancies themselves coming from Isaac, eh?  What a bull. The story that both Jews & Arabs shared a common ancestry are a real one, that's why both Arabs & Jews are considered Semitic lineage.

Semitic peoples are people who live in the middle east. It does not mean they have the same ancestry.
Ie. Babylonians, Assyrians and Hittites were also semites. I think you better go check your English vocab.
The truth remains, there is nothing to support Arab descendence from Ismail.

      
Last time I checked, Adam & Noah are not Jews.

Really? How was Adam and Noah prophetic? What were their prophecies?
What about Jesus, David, Moses and Solomon? Aren抰 they Hebrew?
So the question remains, why did God use a string of Hebrew prophets that does not descend from Ismail?

Ishmael after he was left in Mecca valley together with Hagar, married a nomadic Jurhum tribe woman whose tribe resettled in Mecca valley & later on evolved into Quraysh tribe by the time of prophet Muhammad pbuh. .

Well, these are only claims, no credible evidence of such a linkage at all.
It remains today a wild and vain claim by muslims not backed up by credible scriptures nor any  records at all.

Well now, when did God specifically stated that a prophet must be a Jew, eh? Why the majority of Jews today continued to ignore Jesus? You tell me?

He did not, but the question is, why use a long line of Hebrews and not Arabs if indeed alledged descendents of Ismail received the promises of God?
Jews ignore Jesus? Nope, most first generation Christians were in fact Jews. Once they became Christians, they stop calling themselves Jews and through the ages, many Jews have accepted Jesus as savior. Many Christians today can trace their ancestry to Jews. Even today, they are hundreds of thousands of Jews for Jesus all over the world.

In Quran, God send many prophet to Jewish tribes because they loved to trangress against God's words, & commits heinous paganistic elements more than onec even after God's long line of prophets tried to bring them & reveal God's true path. Heck, the Jews killed several prophets, most notably John the Baptist (Yahya pbuh) & Zachariah (Zakaria pbuh) & try to betray Moses (Musa pbuh), Aaron (Harun pbuh) & finally, betraying Jesus (Isa Al-Masih pbuh).

Well, in that case, descendents of Ismail are even worst then. At least the Hebrews were monotheists but Arabs were pagans. Ismail himself married a pagan.

Now you know why the tribe of Israel is a lost cause ...

You mean Allah gave up? Allah lost? What a loser. Ahahahahahahaha厖厖
God never gave up and God never loses, that抯 why the state of Israel was resurrected after more than 2000 years in acccordance to prophecies record in the Bible. God is great and God is faithful! And when its God抯 timing for the Hebrews to return, not even all the muslims in the world can stop it. The Islamic cause is a lost one buddy, that抯 why you muslims need to create lies to protect it.  

                                 
2. Why did God not punish the Arabs who were pagans since they have strayed from the faith according to muslim logic?
Ever wonder why God didn't punished the Jews for the crimes they committed towards John the Baptist, Zachariah & Jesus. You're saying?

Since you Muslims claim that God does want to punish Jews, why not Arabs for being pagans from day one? Why the double standards? That is the question that you muslims can never answer.


                                 

Well, the Christians believed that the ews have strayed ... but why then the Christians did not help their brothers back to the right path instead of persecuting them during the Crusades, Inquisition & of course by Christian Nazi Germany? Why would a Christian God who is you yourself would claim merciful & compassionate & loving God want to oppress 'His' people?

We Christians do help them back and many have responded thru the ages.
That抯 why Jews and Christians are good frens today. There are more Jews living in Christian countries than in Israel itself.

Besides, Muslims didn't believe Allah has a 'people'. Christians do, which means Jesus who is Son of God, who is God which is Father God, with divine Holy Ghost as a God, which three of 'em equal into one unifying God, has his own people known as the Israelites. Now ... how about the majority of Christians who're not by linaege come from Jewish DNA stock?

Really? So why revere the arabs and worship arab culture? Why bother to link ismail to the sacrifice?
Aren抰 you contradicting yourself?




                         

4. Why are muslims persecuting Jews for alledgely straying when they themselves have obviously strayed earlier?
Why Christians persecuted Jews for allegedly straying when obviously they themselves strayed to from monotheistic faith?

Christianity is a monotheistic faith.

In recorded history, the Christian persecuted the Jewish nation far more aggressively than Islam. Now, why must you be biased eh?

Really? So why are there more Jews in Christian lands than in Israel itself . How many Jews are there in Muslims countries today? Practically none.

Robotech

Well, everybody knows GOB is a hoax. Even Muslims schorlars dismiss this gospel Barnabas thing because it contradicts Islam. It seems like you are not even aware of your own Islamic teachings nor what was written in the GOB.
GOB is just another lame attempt by Muslims to place legitimacy to Mo抯 prophethood because they realized he had none. Same case as this Ismail sacrifice thingy, exposed as a hoax.

Is it? Some Christian scholars even converted to Islam after reading it y'know. Gospel of Barnabas was found not by Muslim, but by 18th century Spanish courtier, JF Cramer & several version of it were dated back in 16th century.

The Gospel become a sensation in Muslim world only after the Christians clergies argued about it. The Gospel obviously attracted Muslim think tanks to analyse the Gospel.

Ishmael story is by far considered legitimate by Muslim.

Now, even Jews do not recognised Jesus as Son of God or even his authenticity as prophet ... what say you?

Robotech

Semitic peoples are people who live in the middle east. It does not mean they have the same ancestry.
Ie. Babylonians, Assyrians and Hittites were also semites. I think you better go check your English vocab.
The truth remains, there is nothing to support Arab descendence from Ismail.

Arabs comes from those stocks. That means they too are Semitic. Now, can we actually traced the current obviously non-pure Jewish mongrels that have intermarried with other ethnicities to be completely descended from Isaac?

Now, do we still have DNA test proving that Isaac & Ishmael provided the Semitic tribes of their lineage!?

BTW, English is not my first language, but It is passable enuff.

Robotech

Well, in that case, descendents of Ismail are even worst then. At least the Hebrews were monotheists but Arabs were pagans. Ismail himself married a pagan.

The Jurhum tribe adopted the monotheistic faith as brought by Abraham & his son Ishmael.

But, later generations reverted back to worshipping idols. Much can be said of Jewish tribes after Isaac, after many generations later on worshipping idols & calves during Moses time.

Robotech

You mean Allah gave up? Allah lost? What a loser. Ahahahahahahaha厖厖
God never gave up and God never loses, that抯 why the state of Israel was resurrected after more than 2000 years in acccordance to prophecies record in the Bible. God is great and God is faithful! And when its God抯 timing for the Hebrews to return, not even all the muslims in the world can stop it. The Islamic cause is a lost one buddy, that抯 why you muslims need to create lies to protect it.

You imply that, not me. There a reason why the final prophet was not descended from the Israelites ... a simple reason that the tribes have betrayed 3 prophets in succession .. John the Baptist son of Zachariah, Zachariah himself & of course, Jesus Christ.

Robotech

Really? How was Adam and Noah prophetic? What were their prophecies?
What about Jesus, David, Moses and Solomon? Aren抰 they Hebrew?
So the question remains, why did God use a string of Hebrew prophets that does not descend from Ismail?

Now, we can question the same thing, why are they no Roman or Greek prophet from God. We can debate this till cows can flies. Even in the Bible tell us of Israelites debauchery, treachery committed time & time again. God saw it fits to send His messengers to the Tribe.

In the end, even Jesus being betrayed. Muhammad, an Arab, was chosen as the prophet by God Almighty, who by his time, pagan Arabs are closely becoming worst much like the Jews of earlier times. Through Muhamad, Islam torn down all racial & cultural barriers till today.

Robotech

Since you Muslims claim that God does want to punish Jews, why not Arabs for being pagans from day one? Why the double standards? That is the question that you muslims can never answer.

The Biblical punishments ended after Moses & Aaron era.

Pagan Arabs was quite fortunate ... they become extinct as a cultural & ideological identity after accepting the Tauhid, that God is One. They become Muslims.

[ Last edited by  Robotech at 30-12-2006 12:32 AM ]

Robotech

We Christians do help them back and many have responded thru the ages.
That抯 why Jews and Christians are good frens today. There are more Jews living in Christian countries than in Israel itself.

Remember Ku Klux Klan? Does Neo Nazi ring a bell?

Or why overseas Jews are mostly liberals & not Jewish conservatives? Or why they do not want to be conscripted as soldiers by Israel? Or the simple reason that they don't clicked with the Israel nation?