Buddhism and Islam

madie

Originally posted by merigigi at 6-7-2007 12:48 AM
Syarul,
People like you cannot accept an alternated negative view about Islam. I have a personal problem about myan juga mu being, my circumstance, whcih Islam does not give me answers to fully. Didn't  ...

assalamualaikum merigigi,

aku ni tak pandai sgt english, tapi cuba kau cerita sebenarnya apa masaalah sebenar yang kau hadapi, seolah olah islam ini tidak ada penyelesaian untuk masaalah yag kau hadapi. apa yang kau rasa negatif tentang islam, cuba kau cerita dengan aku, kalau kau tak mau orang lain masuk campur cuba kau pm aku, insyaallah aku cuba selesai masaalah yang kau hadapi. kalau kau tengok sejarah islam mana dia masaalah di dunia ini tidak dapat diselesaikan oleh islam. baiklah dalam islam pun ada meditasi cuma dalam islam ianya dinamakan muraqabah dan juga musyhadah. pernah ke kau baca buku2 karangan seperti ibnu ataillah, ibnu arabi, sheikh abdul kadir dan juga lain ulama sufi yang dahulu.

islam ini bukannya sempit, tapi kalau kau fikir ikut akal engkau sempitlah jadinya.

takpa le kau pm aje aku, nanti kita bincang sama2 ok

merigigi

salam,

OT: kalau bab nak gaduh2 pasal agama ni, aku simple jerr... kalau kau tak graduate al azhar ke, atau takde education/experience pasal agama yang disertakan dengan praktikal application, i am doubtful. macam kerja analyst jugak lah, ada yang analyst yang dok merepek meraban tak tentu pasal, tapi ada jugak yang cakap tentang kebenaran. it's about quality. anyone can speak because of free speech, but who speaks the truth, well, we just have to find out.

weiloon... yes, as you can see the flame postings from here, how some muslims cannot accept why some try to find answers elsewhere. buddhism makes sense to me. i can see what i'm going through is a normal course of life. isn't what is taught in buddhism that suffering is part of life? from an islamic perspective, well, perhaps what i'm going through at this moment has a divine reason, and maybe one day i'll find out and see the positive outcome of it. that gives me consolation.

i find buddhism gives practical solutions to real problems. meditation, etc is just temporary, and if one overdoes it, it can be a diversion. i was reading the eightfold path and i find it really easy to follow for a layman like me. i don't have to go out to some islamic bookstore and read tonnes of books like ibn who or ibn who like someone taking a phd in Islamic Religious Studies. i might as well read self-help books which benefits me even more than reading articles on religion. Reading the religious books we have differences in opinions and solutions that may not even work for our lives.

i personally read the quran a lot, it is a guidance also spiritual food (gives you calmness), but i don't admit to understand the whole thing. you look two sides of the coin, the book and real life. sometimes what's said in the quran isn't really 100% what you see in real life. that's why we have this thing call itjihad (if i'm not mistaken) and interpretation should come from a consensus of the knowledgeable and wise. but reading the quran and ahadith alone does not make you a wise person without proper reflection and contemplation.

anyway wei loon, i really appreciate that you are trying to teach me about buddhism. i am interested to learn more about it, but only the practical aspects and the concepts (as long as it doesn't contradict with my basic beliefs in Islam or causes shirk). i hope from you i could have a different perspective of life, and be able to look forward to it.

perhaps we can start with how one can find self-contentment in life from the point of buddhism. i'm getting old here (everything is going down south!), not very marketable in the job world and feel really sh*tty at the moment. my world view has turned upside down and i need something to hang on to to carry on my days with optimism.

oh yes, wei loon, another thing, i also read on some buddhism website that buddhism also requires you to be flexible in your life. i really find that refreshing!

XXX

mergigi

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by merigigi at 6-7-2007 06:22 PM
yes, as you can see the flame postings from here, how somemuslims cannot accept why some try to find answers elsewhere.  

I get what you mean.... this happen when someone see things as they want to see... they do not see things as they are..

some Buddhist see no sense in Buddhism and converted into Islam or christian by accepting the one creater....

Your post here already create discomfort feeling within them.... to some muslims, Buddhism is the religion of Idol worshipping..

mnm77

Originally posted by merigigi at 6-7-2007 06:22 PM

weiloon... yes, as you can see the flame postings from here, how somemuslims cannot accept why some try to find answers elsewhere. buddhismmakes sense to me. i can see what i'm going through is a normal courseof life. isn't what is taught in buddhism that suffering is part oflife? from an islamic perspective, well, perhaps what i'm going throughat this moment has a divine reason, and maybe one day i'll find out andsee the positive outcome of it. that gives me consolation.

merigigi,

manusia ni diberi pilihan untuk menggunakan akal masing2. Kadang2 pandangan seseorang tu tak sama dengan pandangan orang lain.

Mungkin ada mesej dari sahabat kita yang niatnya baik, tapi negatif kesannya pada kita.

Saya masih belum pasti apa sebenarnya masalah awak. Adakah awak rasa Islam ni satu bebanan, susah nak faham, atau konsep taqdir yang awak rasa tak adil?

Islam ni sebenarnya mudah, dan pada mereka yang mengalami kesukaran, Insha Allah ada jalan mudahnya. Kalau seorang tu sakit, dia masih boleh bersolat sambil duduk atau berbaring.

Bila kita terlalu banyak mendapat maklumat berbagai mengenai Islam, tu yang memungkinkan kita celaru dan rasa makin susah, walhal sebenarnya tidak.

di sini lebih untuk dapatkan maklumat. banyak maklumat boleh diperolehi tapi adakah ia praktikal untuk kita? bila kita tak mampu nak praktikan tu yang kita rasa berat.

yang penting amalan kita dan yakinlah, apa yang kita beramal ikhlas kerana Allah ia tak akan sia-sia. Yang mana kita mengalami masalah, cubalah berdoa pohon pada Allah beri jalan penyelesaian, sambil berikhtiar untuk itu.

mnm77

Kadang kala ujian kesusahan untuk kita mungkin Allah nak:
-meningkatkan darjat kita
-memberi amaran tentang kelalaian kita
-memberi peluang untuk membaiki diri, iman dan amal
-menghapuskan dosa
-mengelakkan kita terjerumus dengan kemudaratan yang lebih besar (tanpa kita sedari)

Namun kita harus bersabar bila ditimpa kesusahan kerana:
-syaitan juga berusaha untuk melemahkan iman kita
-nafsu tak suka kepada kesusahan dan mungkin menyalahkan sesuatu
-bila tak nampak yang kebaikan, makin kita berprasangka buruk
-putus asa adalah cita2 syaitan untuk kita

wei_loon5063

From:	merigigi
To:	wei_loon5063
Time:	6-7-2007 07:04 PM
Message:	dear wei loon, thanks for your PM. i'd rather you put it on the message board. i am trying to find answersand to help myself, but also at the same time open the eyes of theislamic bigots to other opinions on the religion. i am trying to do the detachment process. i am not trying to be anascetic (sp?), but i think i am just too duniawi right now, and my lineof thought is that if i do everything right then everything will beright. but, my life shows otherwise. so it shows that my basicfundalism about life is wrong in the first place. which makes me think, i know you are not muslim, but the truth of thematter is, even if you pray 10 times a day, fast for two months, pay50% of your wealth to zakat, you're not safe in the akhirah. buddhism to me is about finding peace and contentment within yourself.go on further to islam, only then you can be grateful to God. fromwhere i'm at weiloon, i have a friend who had 30 million bucks (over 10years of course) and almost lost it all (well, money is almost allgone, i mean wife and family too). so attachment to the world likemoney and material can save you? nope it can't. i actually don't quite understand what you were saying about: ego in Buddhism mean you suffer as you think you are you. you are not you as there are no you. get it? please, can we have this discussion in the forums? i hope it will open up the eyes of other muslims too... merigig (i'm a she)

hope this wont create any fire here.........

I do not hope you leave Islam or even "convert"( as there are no convert) to Buddhism.

Just hope you have peace of mind....

to understand detachment is simply to understand impermanance.....

i actually don't quite understand what you were saying about:

ego in Buddhism mean you suffer as you think you are you. you are not you as there are no you. get it?

this is known as no-self or anatta....you can google on your own...
***This concept already contradict with the fundamental concept of permanent and ultimate soul of you. Forget it if you do not like it

[quote]
To experience it, one needs meditation. An ordinary mind can onlyknow ordinary concepts and ideas. If one wants to understand andexperience extraordinary experiences and ideas, one has to have anextraordinary mind. An extraordinary mind comes about throughconcentration. Most meditators have experienced some stage that isdifferent then the one they are use to. So it is not ordinary any more.But we have to fortify that far more than just the beginning stage. Tothe point where the mind is truly extraordinary. Extraordinary in thesense that it can direct itself to where it wants to go. Extraordinaryin the sense that it no longer gets perturbed by everyday events. Andwhen the mind can concentrate, then it experiences states which it hasnever known before. To realize that your universe constantly fallsapart and comes back together again is a meditative experience. Ittakes practice, perseverance and patience. And when the mind isunperturbed and still, equanimity, evenmindedness, peacefulness arise.
    Atthat time the mind understands the idea of impermanence to such anextent that it sees itself as totally impermanent. And when one seesone's own mind as being totally impermanent, there is a shift in one'sviewpoint. That shift I like to compare with a kaleidoscope thatchildren play with. A slight touch and you get a different picture. Thewhole thing looks quite different with just a slight shift.
    Non-selfis experienced through the aspect of impermanence, through the aspectof unsatisfactoriness, and through the aspect of emptiness. Empty ofwhat? The word "emptiness" is so often misunderstood because when oneonly thinks of it as a concept, one says "what do you mean by empty?"Everything is there: there are the people, and there are their insides,guts and their bones and blood and everything is full of stuff

merigigi

weiloon,

i'm not in the US.

i work with them, and Europeans. it's an outsourcing company, and mostly i face mat salleh more than i face malaysians on a day to day. that's why i'm more open about things than if i'm just with the melayu...

yikes! you posted a private email.

yeah, concept of impermenance sounds interesting to me. nothing stays with you forever yeah? care to explain more? (well, i do believe life has a purpose, and when we die we go some where) i think the concept of impermenence is applicable to worldly things like the earth itself, material, etc... but it's interesting this concept is...

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by merigigi at 6-7-2007 07:41 PM
yeah, concept of impermenance sounds interesting to me. nothing stayswith you forever yeah? care to explain more?  

not only nothing stay with me but I do not exist as me..

can you tell me you then are you when you started this thread and you now reading this? No... you are not.

to experience you, you must not think you are you. you must experience the changing in and out of you. then you can feel you.

(well, i do believe lifehas a purpose, and when we die we go some where) i think the concept ofimpermenence is applicable to worldly things like the earth itself,material, etc... but it's interesting this concept is... ..

I found this so call poem la... you and other muslims might want to read it as reading Sonnet 18 la...

then try to link this to no self or impremanance...

**To know yourself is to forget yourself...

The air fills my lungs and then?
My blood receives
This grace by which
I live a few moments more,
My every cell replenished.
With every breath
A part of me departs
And something new
Is put in place.

The rice I ate yesterday,
Where is it now?
In my muscle, in my bone.
The juice we shared,
Where has it gone?
In our arms and legs and all.

Last month
The rice waved in the sunshine
In other lands:
In the low flood plains
Of the Mississippi
Or Irrawaddy;
And the fruit hung
On trees in Cyprus
Sicily or Spain.

And before that?
Before that their substance
Was in the soil,
Was in the air,
Was in the seas.
Was in the seas
Waiting to be gathered up
Waiting to soar up into the highest reaches of the sky,
Waiting to become rain.

You and I
Are mostly water.
Last year
Most of each of us
Was in the ocean.
We circulated together
In the Atlantic,
Or the Pacific perhaps,
For we are mostly water.

And that water was lifted
By sunshine heat,
By the impact of photons
Cascading down,
Beating upon the ocean's face.

And every photon
Comes from the sun,
From the belly of the star;
You and I were stars last year.
We chased each other
In the turbulent heart of the sun.

So who was it that lived in your house last year?
And where will you be next week?
Who is your true friend and who your foe?
And who will you be next year?

Breathe deep,
Breath deep.

This air is me.
This air is you.
This air we share.
I give my substance to you and
You yours to me.

With each breath I am linked
In a single orbit
With the great forests.
My out breath is their food,
Theirs fills my lungs.
Last year
I was a tree
And the tree was me.

Each day
We gather up substance
And continue the task
Of endlessly
Remaking ourselves
From one another.

Each day
We discard a portion
And continue the cycle
Of endlessly
Returning ourselves
To others.

Day by day we change
And become one another,
The substance of the universe,
Stardust and all,
Passing through us each
And we through it.

(well, i do believe lifehas a purpose, and when we die we go some where)

again.... I think many muslim think Buddhism is absurd is rebirth... many think rebirth as in reincarnation where soul go here and there... no.. this is wrong....


[ Last edited by  wei_loon5063 at 6-7-2007 07:53 PM ]

mnm77

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 6-7-2007 07:33 PM
buddhism to me is about finding peace and contentment withinyourself.
go on further to islam, only then you can be grateful to God

I have no comment on buddhism.

To merigigi,

But about Islam, personally my experience, the more I remember Allah the more I find peace and contentment. Maybe it didn't work with you, I don't know.

Since you prefer to find contentment through buddism, and the more Islmic approach to you would bring your dissatisfaction, then I can just hope for your success throughout your life. May Allah guide you and save all of us from misguidance.

To wei loon, it seems that you are sincere the way you response, and I feel you also have some Islamic wisdom in you, although you are not Muslim

[ Last edited by  mnm77 at 6-7-2007 08:00 PM ]

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 6-7-2007 07:33 PM
buddhism to me is about finding peace and contentment withinyourself.
go on further to islam, only then you can be grateful to God

this is not said by me......

.

Since you prefer to find contentment through buddism, and the moreIslmic approach to you would bring your dissatisfaction, then I canjust hope for your success throughout your life. May Allah guide youand save all of us from misguidance.

To wei loon, it seems that you are sincere the way you response, and Ifeel you also have some Islamic wisdom in you, although you are notMuslim

contenment?

I think she can lessen his suffering by accepting that life is impermanance....

if he keep on thinkin she possess this and that with stron desire, he will suffer...

mnm77

I acknowledge and I know it was not written by you. I quote what you quote from her, and my reply actually to her and then to you (post#49)

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by mnm77 at 6-7-2007 08:07 PM
I acknowledge and I know it was not written by you. I quote what you quote from her, and my reply actually to her and then to you (post#49)

yes I know but it show that originally posted by me.....

If merigi think that Dhamma can lessen her suffering then so be it...

as long as she still remember Allah is her god and Islam is her religion

this is what matter.....

how she walk, what she see, what she touch does not matter as long as where she go and where she will reach is certain.

merigi.. this is for you to think about your suffering...

You might see it as trial of Allah or cause of your own action....

Do not pursue the past.
              Do not lose yourself in the future.
              The past no longer is.
              The future has not yet come.
              Looking deeply at life as it is.
              In the very here and now, the practitioner dwells in stability and               freedom.
              We must be diligent today.
              To wait until tomorrow is too late.
              Death comes unexpectedly.
              How can we bargain with it?
              The sage calls a person who knows how to dwell in mindfulness night               and day,
              'one who knows the better way to live alone.'

To deny the reality of things is to miss their reality;
          to assert the emptiness of things is to miss their reality.
          The more you talk and think about it, the further astray you wander           from the truth.
          Stop talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able           to know

What you eat cannot purify your mind - but is there greed behind               your choice of eating?
              If yes, the mind that eats is not pure - be your choice vegetarian               or not.
            I think it is time to face yourself again.
              Then again, it is always time.
            Truth is only as real as our delusion allows.
              
            If an untrained sentient being can create Real Hell out of Total               Ignorance,
              why can't a perfect Buddha create a Real Pureland out of Total Compassion?

I think you should stop this mentality for a while.... everytime you feel angry, mad, scare... stop blaming it on God or satan..

FACE your anger, face your madness, face your fear...

ask yourself... why you feel so.. why...

once you ask yourself these very fundamental question, you will realise these feelings are all illusion.

erm...but you can't leave Islam...
and if you want be a real buddhist...u can't eat meat at all...
you only can eat vegetables...

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by hong_5363 at 6-7-2007 09:46 PM
erm...but you can't leave Islam...
and if you want be a real buddhist...u can't eat meat at all...
you only can eat vegetables...

wrong and right....

right in malaysia you cant leave Islam.........

wrong about meat eating...

In the Amagandha Sutta, the Buddha said:

'Neither meat, nor fasting, nor nakedness,
Nor shaven heads, nor matted hair, nor dirt,
Nor rough skins, nor fire-worshipping,
Nor all the penances here in this world,
Nor hymns, nor oblation, nor sacrifice,
Nor feasts of the season,
Will purify a man overcome with doubt.'

meat is only like begetable..

meat get its food from otehr animal and from plant

plant get its food from the sun and from the $hit...

the # from the digestion...

read back on food chain...... your SPM is coming...

Meat eating is wrong if you enjoy the taste of meat and hate the taste of vege..

vege and meat taste the same. what differ meat and vege is our mind....

how can you certain the vege you eat is purely 100% vege?

and the meat you eat is 100% meat? that tiger eat tiger and never eat cow as cow eat grass?

the plant take $hit from dog and dog eat meat.... how can you sure?




[ Last edited by  wei_loon5063 at 6-7-2007 10:11 PM ]

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 6-7-2007 10:06 PM


wrong and right....

right in malaysia you cant leave Islam.........

wrong about meat eating...



meat is only like begetable..

meat get its food from otehr animal and from plant ...

hehe...funny la you
tapi kawan mak saya betul betul tak makan semua daging o...dier hanya makan sayuran leh

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by hong_5363 at 6-7-2007 10:52 PM

hehe...funny la you
tapi kawan mak saya betul betul tak makan semua daging o...dier hanya makan sayuran leh

that is the main problem in chinese community....

they think Buddha and Kuan Yin is God....

this is what some people... I think most of the people... in all religion

they do not justify what people say but accept it blindly..

One is I still cant understand is say some who "pray" for Kuan Yin say cant eat beef...

I lazy want to tell them about what Buddhism is as if I do, they wil lget angry....

Buddha say cant KILL for PLEASURE...

madie

nak tanya satu perkara le weiloon
kenapa sami budhha tak pakai selipar atau kasut? bukan kah itu perbuatan yang mendatangkan penyakit.

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by madie at 6-7-2007 11:15 PM
nak tanya satu perkara le weiloon
kenapa sami budhha tak pakai selipar atau kasut? bukan kah itu perbuatan yang mendatangkan penyakit.

ahahaa... penyakit apa yang kau maksudkan?

kau tau tak yang sekarang ini ada mat saleh guna meditasi untuk ubat penyakit....

tak pakai adalah kerana tak nak rasa selesa...

meditasi bukan macam kat TV... duduk pas tu cakap umm umm amm umm .

tapi meditasi adalah lupa diri kau dan aware dengan sekeliling...

bila kau jalan kat jalan.. kau rasa panas... kau rasa panas sebab kau fikir kau yang rasa

sami fikir tak ada dia seperti yang saya cakap dengan anatta di atas...

bila kau fikir tak ada kau, maka kau tak rasa panas, cuma ada panas

panas adalah kau, kau adalah panas. Kalau nak pakai kasut sebab takut panas, maka dia dah fikir dia sebagai dia...

wei_loon5063

Post saya 58# mungkin nampak bodoh dan tak mungkin dan tak mustahil atau taksub...

saya okay.. tak apa.. tapi sebelum kau cakap apa apa, cuba kau cuba...

bila rasa sejuk, jangan cakap atau fikir sejuk.. fikir kau tak wujud.. perasan angin dan sejuk... rasa...

kemudian apa kata kau dengan post saya 58#

merigigi

thanks for your letter weiloon. i realize that i need time and indeed lots of patience to go fase through this. but your letter does certainly help. now i must not think too much about it, and i think things will come naturally.

to me being muslim is simple. syahadah and rukun islam and rukun iman. fullstop.

[ Last edited by  merigigi at 7-7-2007 02:07 AM ]