General thread on Buddhism

jaundice

Karma
Does the law of karma mean that people who are born poor deserve it? Or people who are born disabled deserve it?

Asceticism
Man has responsibilities and duties towards his family and community. How can a person leave everything behind and live a life of a monk? I know Buddhism doesn't require this, but looking up to such an act as noble is not right to me.

[ Last edited by  jaundice at 14-1-2009 02:08 AM ]

tickmeoff

Originally posted by jaundice at 11-1-2009 01:49 AM
1. Karma
Does the law of karma mean that people who are born poor deserve it? Or people who are born disabled deserve it?

2. Asceticism
Man has responsibilities and duties towards his family and community. How can a person leave everything behind and live a life of a monk? I know Buddhism doesn't require this, but looking up to such an act as noble is not right to me.

Dear Jaundice,

1. Before we discuss this issue, can I know what you know about Kamma according to Buddhist belief?

2. Not many people can walk out of their life just like that without their wives or children or whoever that is under their responsibility starving to death and exposed to wordly dangers. The Buddha left his family , because he was able to do so at that point of time , having born in rich and high family awashed with servants and cash. But he went back to his family later too to preach the Dhamma and gave them the highest gift.

That comes the question , whether a person has the good kamma to be able to renounce? Whether after he renounciates , he can get alms generously from the public? Whether such conditions exist for him that he does not have to take care of his parents and his family? Whether the circumstance allows him to walk such a path?

Yes , everyone has their responsibility and duties, and therefore not everyone can walk out from their families and concentrate fully on the practice of Dhamma.

This is why, the Buddha offered the Laity ( Lay followers ) the less rigid form of Dhamma practice, that is to gain merits (good kamma) by practicing virtues, generosity and some meditation practice (to gain Seeds for future). The whole purpose of this is to enable these lay followers to attain at least a good Rebirth after this life, and if possible , getting enough Kamma for future release.

Being a buddhist is being practical. Everyone is at the different level of their understanding of the Doctrine, each tied down to their own myriads of circumstances and duties. Even a soldier has to do his duty to defend his country from enemies. Everyone is different. Likewise, a monk has his duty and responsibility too, all explained in the Vinaya. (1/3 of buddhist texts)

You cannot look at Buddhist practice = being a monk or that one cannot practice buddhism without being a monk. It's not like that.

[ Last edited by  tickmeoff at 11-1-2009 09:06 AM ]

tickmeoff

hmm, other buddhists no input ke? like i am the only one writing here.

SONofODIN

Others are Buddhist by name, no knowledge like you, the learned one.

jaundice

Originally posted by tickmeoff at 11-1-2009 08:52 AM


Dear Jaundice,

1. Before we discuss this issue, can I know what you know about Kamma according to Buddhist belief?

So what is karma according to Buddhist belief? I thought karma is that what you do will have an effect. Good actions lead to good results, and vicec versa. But what I can't seem to accept from this concept is that it seems to imply that people who are born poor deserve it, people who are born handicapped deserve it. Then if people have this in their minds when they look at poor people, or disabled people, then they'll have this preconceived notion that the unfortunate person did something bad in their past life, looking down on them.

tickmeoff

Originally posted by jaundice at 11-1-2009 10:15 PM


Originally posted by jaundice at 11-1-2009 10:15 PM
So what is karma according to Buddhist belief? I thought karma isthatwhat you do will have an effect. Good actions lead to goodresults, andvicec versa. But what I can't seem to accept from thisconcept is thatit seems to imply that people who are born poor deserveit, people whoare born handicapped deserve it. Then if people havethis in their mindswhen they look at poor people, or disabled people,then they'll havethis preconceived notion that the unfortunate persondid something badin their past life, looking down on them.

Peoplehave difficulty in explaining the disabilities of humans in this world.The scientists would look at it as pure chance, being defect in thenatural process of formation of a human being. (genes, environment ,etc)

I am sure you have your own explanation to people who are born disabled.

Buddhism has some explanation too. However, none of these explanation helps the disabled in anyway. It's not productive to speculate on what possible kammas that can cause a person to be born disabled or disadvantaged. What matters most  is: our compassion to help them.

Buddhism stresses a lot on the present moment - NOW.  It places highly on charity and generosity (Dana) and compassion. If a person understands kamma and has the attitude of 'you deserve it' , then we all can agree that person is 'self-righteous' and 'cruel'. Even Sharon Stone who said something about the Chinese getting the terrible earthquake by invading Tibet got blasted by the international media as being crude and insensitive.

Instead of looking down on them, the Buddha taught about compassion to all beings. He praised highly of charity work, and humans who are being service to others to help alleviate suffering.

Dana (charity) and Service to others, are 2 of the 10 meritorious deeds in Buddhism. Let the actions of  Buddhist charity in the world today speaks for itself. During the Indonesian Tsunami, the Buddhist charity donated money to the victims WITHOUT condition and deceit. They even donated money to help them build mosques and muslim schools. They did not hide behind charity to proselytize the muslims as seen in other religions who have come into conflict with local traditions and culture.

[ Last edited by  tickmeoff at 12-1-2009 08:44 AM ]

jaundice

Dukkha
Is suffering just dukkha, or is pleasure also dukkha? Does a hedonist who gets what he wants always experience dukkha?

Tillingtan

Like Son of Odin wrote " You are the learned one".

Tillingtan

dukkha arises from frustrated expectation.
I think a hedonist would also experience dukkha because pleasure are not permanent.

tickmeoff

A lot of things about dukkha in buddhism need some form of meditation and attainment of insights to understand. But on the surface, we can say that even pleasant experience has some form of intrinsic dukkha attached to it.

We all like pleasant experiences, good sound (music,songs ), good taste (food), good sight (beauty), good smell (perfumes and fragrances) , good feeling (sex, touch of body, etc).

Pleasant experience , per se, is not wrong but problem comes when one gets attached to it. Some form of dukkha actually comes after the pleasant experiences , (with the intrinsic value of impermanency) cease. You cannot have 24 hours of orgasm can you? likewise when you hear pleasant music, after a while you got bored with the same music because that same piece of music cannot invoke pleasant feelings continuously...

So if you notice, after the cessation of good feelings, there is some form of inflection, so to speak ... like a melancholy.. sort of sadness and yearning for that feeling you just experience.. like a wanting for it.. a wish to experience that pleasant thing again. At certain times of  your life, you will reflect .. such is such pleasant feelings i had in the past.. how i wish i can experience that again..

I am not a hedonist, so I don't really know how their mind operates. Perhaps they really see pleasures as permanent and therefore the ultimate goal in life.

However, I suppose everyone has the right to live whatever way he chooses... after all human existence is Sugati - "happy destination".

[ Last edited by  tickmeoff at 14-1-2009 08:38 AM ]

cabang

Duka n suka are best friends, its always take turn....when u suka, duka waiting his turn....

jaundice

What is dukkha actually?

tickmeoff

Originally posted by jaundice at 14-1-2009 10:49 PM
What is dukkha actually?

Dear Jaundice,

1.Birth is dukkha,
2.aging is dukkha,
3.deathis dukkha;
4 sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, & despair are dukkha;
5. association with the unbeloved is dukkha;
6. separation from the loved is dukkha;
7. not getting what is wanted is dukkha.
8. In short, the fiveclinging-aggregates are dukkha.
SN 38.14

They can also be grouped into three:

1. suffering induced by change (impermanency) - everything we experience, everyone we love, everything we like.. has the inherent quality of changing. This is the precise nature of unsatisfactoriness. How we wish our happier time when we were younger, with less responsibility, without having to worry about work , with parents providing everything for us, with company of happy go lucky friends would last forever... How we wish our parents will be with us forever, that they don't get old, they don't get sick, they don't die.

2. suffering induced by pain - unpleasant sensations , painful joints, painful limbs, getting sick, getting cut, mental pain, physical pain, extreme heat, discomfort of maintaining fixed posture for long time, etc

3. suffering induced by fabrications - this is a very subtle kind of suffering as a reaction to qualities of conditioned things, including the 5 aggregates and mental formations. This, needs some form of insight attainments and meditation to realize and it's very hard to see for normal folks like us, so this is out of scope of discussion here.


you can read up a bit on Dukkha , further explained by Ven Sariputta in the following sutta (he was Buddha's chief disciple)


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca1/dukkha.html

[ Last edited by  tickmeoff at 15-1-2009 08:59 AM ]

tickmeoff

Originally posted by cabang at 14-1-2009 09:42 AM
Duka n suka are best friends, its always take turn....when u suka, duka waiting his turn....

yes yes . Duka dan suka-cita.

tickmeoff

agreed.   when we expected things to last forever, but in reality they don't , we suffer because of not getting what we want...

Actually discussion of Dukkha can be very depressing to some people

[ Last edited by  tickmeoff at 15-1-2009 09:05 AM ]

cabang

dukha coz by loba dosa n moha.....even a small loba can make u suffer during meditation....heeeeeee my experience,,,

tickmeoff

Originally posted by cabang at 15-1-2009 09:14 AM
dukha coz by loba dosa n moha.....even a small loba can make u suffer during meditation....heeeeeee my experience,,,

true true.

[ Last edited by  tickmeoff at 15-1-2009 10:06 AM ]

SONofODIN

If not mistaken the Malay word duka was derived from dukha.

Dukha means suffering.

tickmeoff

Hi odin,

long time no hear. I think linguistically , Malay language has its origin from the ancient Sanskrit language. So it's not surprising to see some malay terms have similar meaning to Ancient Sanskrit. Like Sugati = happy destination = 'suka'.

[ Last edited by  tickmeoff at 17-1-2009 09:44 AM ]

jaundice

First Noble Truth is that Life is Suffering. But don't you think that many people don't really suffer that much? They're not really bothered with small setbacks, and little pleasures make them perceive that life is actually fun, happy, etc. What about poeple who have a lot of money, have many sexual partners at their expense, do they experience dukkha? Do you think for example, Hugh Hefner, do those kind of people experience dukkha?