What Soora 2:23 really says to SFE Talk?

Afther 2 years this thread has been created, Debmey still doesn't create any sura but he kept saying..
"what is the objective and who will be the judges.." Fuzman has already gave you the explaination Debmey.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by deepjunior at 15-8-2005 02:20 AM
Afther 2 years this thread has been created, Debmey still doesn't create any sura but he kept saying.."what is the objective and who will be the judges.." Fuzman has already gave you the explaination Debmey.

So what have you learned from the contents of the soora 2:23 Debmey? What is your understanding of the words that were pieced together to form the body of the 2:23? You're a very dishonest Trinitrian Christian Debmey. That is why you're running from this thread as you cannot disapprove of the 2:23 having the qualities of a fufilling and complete OBJECTIVE CRITERIA.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

I think it is not a serious challenge. And how can it be? It doe not give us a platform for the challenge and it does not specify the judges. To top it all off, verse 24 already decide on the outcome of the challenge before it began.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 19-9-2005 09:11 PM
I think it is not a serious challenge. And how can it be? It doe not give us a platform for the challenge and it does not specify the judges. To top it all off, verse 24 already decide on the outcome of the challenge before it began.

In the first place, do you understand the contents of the 2:23? It's considerations and its ramifications?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Thats exactly what I want to ask you too. Can you make this challenge intelligible by first telling us what are the objective criteria of the contest?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 20-9-2005 01:53 AM
Thats exactly what I want to ask you too. Can you make this challenge intelligible by first telling us what are the objective criteria of the contest?

The objective criteria can be found very clearly in the body of the soora 2:23 itself, but first you have to tell me whether you understand what the body of the soora 2:23 says?

Let me help you out a little bit here with a choice of three:
What 2:23 says :-
YUSUFALI: And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
PICKTHAL: And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.
SHAKIR: And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.

Look them over and please let me know what you make of the soora and the meaning that lies within. Just waiting to hear from you.

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman at 20-9-2005 09:19 PM ]

Debmey

Yes, I fully understand it and so do you.
Its a dishonest and bogoted challenge by teh author of the Quran.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 20-9-2005 09:26 PM
Yes, I fully understand it and so do you. Its a dishonest and bogoted challenge by teh author of the Quran.

So what does soora 2:23 say irrelevant of what you think of it. Tell me what the soora says?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

It is a dishonest challenge. If you think otherwise, then you explain to us what it says.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 21-9-2005 08:45 AM
It is a dishonest challenge. If you think otherwise, then you explain to us what it says.

I respect your dishonest challenge charge but then again you need to point out to me in which part of the verse itself lies the dishonesty claimed by you.
YUSUFALI: And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

Waiting to hear from you.

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman at 21-9-2005 10:52 AM ]

Debmey

There you go. I have to repeat my self again.

Originally posted by Debmey at 28-6-2005 10:32 AM
The hard facts of Faruq al-Dhimmi's position are within the quran itself. There are no objective criteria, no judges, and the Quran predetermines the outcome even before the competition.

The su ...

Thats why its a dishonest challenege.

Can you counter that?

Fuzzman

C'mon Debmey, don't let Faruq al-Dhimmi or even Ali Sina be your fallguy if you cannot square off a solid salvo in your credit. You very well know that Faruq's argument is loosely centered to the belief that soora 2:23 is decked heavily in favor of Quran. If you fully understand the verse of the 2:23 you will see that in all serenity, the verse "politely provokes" a doubtor to produce any part of any soora to differ accordingly if able and allows scrutiny from the witnesses and helpers of the doubtor. The doubtor has free will to prove a point without external pre-conditions. So how can Faruq say that the soora 2:23 is heavily decked in favor of Quran?

So for a  person whom I regard has high moral grounds and vast knowledge to righteously err the Quran, I find it lackey and weak of you to go on depending on authors who contribute to Answering Islam. So where lies your self-dignity and intellect? Are you reduced to repetition of thoughts of another individual while you are distraught of your own?

i can openly counter you if you honestly tell me in your own words why the soora 2:23 has no criterial merits whatsoever. C'mon Debmey show us all that you still have what it takes.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

What 2:23 says :-
YUSUFALI: And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

Thats what i've been saying Fuzzy. I see no objective criteria in this verse at all. Where are the merits when there are no objective criteria in this challenge? If you think there are any merits at all for thsi verse, tell us what are the objective criteria contained in it.

cheers

Dude, you are so funny.

The objective is to create a new sura that can match the existing one. Can you read?

Debmey

The objective criteria. Where are the objective criteria for teh challenge? You dunno English right?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 25-9-2005 08:51 AM
The objective criteria. Where are the objective criteria for teh challenge? You dunno English right?

Deepjunior was correct on the Objective part written by him, noone other then to create one like it and not of it, while the criteria set is to create only when in doubt. Simple thing really!

The understanding of the coinage OBJECTIVE CRITERIA is - A standard or a test formulated on an observable phenomena; presented factually on which a decision can be made. - which is in general conformity with the call of the 2:23 which reads - " And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful. "

Therefore based on the above two understanding, the accepted rule should be noone other then - " To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."

So there you have it. Now argue your way on what I've written above.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

So where? Where are the objective criteria for the challenge?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 27-9-2005 09:25 PM
So where? Where are the objective criteria for the challenge?

Ahaha Debmey in denial. Are you insisting on playing the four-legged beast in my favorite proverb to you? LOL.

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 27-9-2005 09:25 PM
So where? Where are the objective criteria for the challenge?

To create a chapter in likeness but not of it, to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad.

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman at 29-9-2005 01:43 AM ]

Fuzzman

C'mon Debmey you flunked big time in most of my threads. How about making that a full 360 turnaround with another defeat from you in this thread. You still game to carry on this argument or do you need Chicken Little to do the adult talking for yer? LOL

ARI FUZZMAN