Contradictions in the bible

>>53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
          Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15

Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
          Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32<<<<


1 Timothy 3:8 - "Deacons, in like manner, must be grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre." (Note that it doesn't say not given to wine, but rather not to much wine.)

1 Timothy 5:3 - "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." (Both sides use this text. One says that the text says it's acceptable to drink wine in moderation. The other says, "See. Paul had to tell Timothy to take wine medicinally because he would not use it otherwise.")

Luke 7:33-34 - "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine and ye say He hath a devil. The Son of Man came eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (This indicates, perhaps, that Jesus was known for drinking alcoholic wine as opposed to John who would not even drink grape juice.)

Romans 14:21 - "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby they brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

1 Peter 4:3-4 - "For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatires; wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you."

Proverbs 20:1 - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived therby is not wise."

See also Proverbs 23:30-35, which accurately describes the drunkard.
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Use your common sense lah... afterall Jesus broke bread and have wine with his disciples.  Don't go and look for contradictions just for the sake of contradicting. that's is sake not `Japanese Sake` - which is off course another variety of  fine alcoholic beverage which i consume once in a while.  `Moderation` is a good ethos.

Just like Puasa - fasting is designed to rid your stomach of putrid stuff and to give it the digestive system a clean up. The way u people are doing it is offensive to all who fast. You don't eat for x number of hours and then when the BUKA arriives - you gorge and glutton on fine food.

why don't u address the can of worms re the Quran which i have open for u in the prev page? u want to play ping pong like that - it 'll never end.

Jesus said ..", Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:56-58). This was hundreds of years after the days of Abraham. 揂nd God spoke to Moses and said to him: 慖 am the LORD. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD (Hebrew YHWH), I was not known to them挃 Ex(6:2-3). "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." John 1:10.

Jukebox

Your reply

Jukebox

Your reply -

If he wanted revenge against those who refuse to accept his fake religion, he will become totally ruthless and vicious sicko and he will tell his followers to torture the non-believer. He says: -Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. [Koran 69:30-37]

If you take account of only those verses, surely it抣l sound different. This particular verse reminds us of the new beginning for mankind after the great flood, condemnation of the tribe of 慉d, Thamud, Firaun and the rest before him.

Al-Haqqa 69:4

Jukebox

Your reply -

and-They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. [Koran 5:33]

I抦 really getting tired

Jukebox

Your reply -

By now he already have a rapt audience of eager male listeners. How many virgins are there for a man who dies for Allah an eager follower asks?  

-Why the smallest reward for every believer who is admitted to Paradise is 72 wives. The proof is in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on "The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah," Chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise," Hadith 2687). The Tafsir of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: mentions servants as well "It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim that Abu-al-Haytham Abdullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad saying:  

'The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'" What if you are surrounded by all those women but can't do it. Don't worry.

-[tirmidhi, vol. 2 states on p.138]

A man in paradise shall be given virility equal to that of one hundred men.

Congratulations. Now he have men eager to kill and die for him. The problem is he have to deliver on the promise of the booty and yet he want it. -So tell them that since Allah granted victory the spoils belong to him and one fifth should go to his prophet (himself lar..) and let them have the rest [Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52 Number 46 8:41]  

What if his followers want to rape their captive women? If he want them to kill for him, it would be wise to satisfy their sexual desires and to sanction rape -so he tell them that Allah decrees that they can rape their captives [Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3371]  

Congratulations, they are killing the infidel right and left and he is getting wealthy off the booty. But wait a minute. He could be making more money. What good do a lot of dead non-believers do for him? Wouldn't it be better if they all paid taxes? He don't want the non-believer killed, he want them enslaved. So he will tell his  followers:-Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [Koran 9.29]  

As he became rich other people might get the idea to declare that they are prophets too. They might even copy his tactics and threaten those who don't believe in them with hell. If such tactics worked for him it might work for them too. Then there'll be less money for him. Their followers might even become a threat to him. Not a problem. Just declare that he is  the last prophet.  

-[Abu dawood, vol 2 p.228; Tirmidhi vol 2 p.45]

In My Ummah (Islamic Nation), there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me.

As you have repeatedly with intentions to alter/shortened versus in the Qur'an and the contents in Hadith plus evidently you yourself aren't aware of which sura and hadith that you yourself are pointing at, (by the incorrect reference made repeatedly)....lets put it this way, i'm tired of pasting the correct verses, surahs and hadith.

All of the above that you have posted are inter related with the Jihad issues, Muslims who sacrificed their lives in the name of Islam and Allah would be judged by Allah himself whether it抣l be considered as a true Jihad act or not. If their intention was solely for all the sins that they have committed before will be erased and of the rewards that awaits them in heaven, then surely it is a lost cause. For Muhammad pbuh and his followers in those days fought battles solely for Islam and in the name of Allah and those who died, die as Jihads. If you don抰 have any hard evidents and facts to support your claims that he uphold the true religion of Allah, then you best just sit and shut your trap as it is blasphemy that you抮e uttering and do no more further or there will be no mercy for you after judgment day. As there are no words in human dictionary that would describe of the torment in hell. That is why in Al-Qur抋n there are verses to remind the believers of what awaits for those who sin, it serves as a reminder for muslims.

For the Palestinians, I can抰 imagine of how their life could be

Jukebox

55. Women's rights denied
          Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
         Women's rights affirmed
          Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9

     56. Obedience to masters enjoined
          Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
         Obedience due to God only
          Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10

     57. There is an unpardonable sin
          Mark 3:29
         There is not unpardonable sin
          Acts 13:39

Jukebox

58. Man was created after the other animals
          Gen 1:25,26,27
         Man was created before the other animals
          Gen 2:18,19

     59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
          Gen 8:22
         Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
          Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6

     60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
          Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
         Pharaoh hardened his own heart
          Ex 8:15

Genesis 1 was a chronological description of the events of creation.

Genesis 2:1-7 summarises the completion of creation....
The Garden of Eden
1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4This is the history[1] of the heavens and the earth when they were created...,
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at this point everything has been created. That's why it says " work is done and he RESTed on the seventh day...

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Genesis 2:8 titles "Life in the garden of Eden": which is the start of adam's history. Thus verses 2:18+ does not have a chronological connotation.

2:19  Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them...

It doesn't say "okay immediately after making these cows i 'll instantly teleport them to Adam"

Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 years (Sura 70:4)?
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How many gardens are there in paradise?

ONE: 39:73, 41:30 [the Garden], 57:21 [a Garden], 79:41 [the Garden], or
MANY: 18:31, 22:23, 35:33, 78:32 [each time: "Gardens"]?

The plural "Gardens" has to refer to at least three because if it/they were two, then the Arabic would use the dual form of the noun. Therefore this is a discrepancy of at least 200% from "one" to "several".
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Sura 56:7 mentions three distinct groups of people for judgement. But 90:18-19, 99:6-8, etc. mention only two groups
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35:1
Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things.
According to Sura 35:1 angels have 2, 3, or 4 pairs of wings. This is contradicted by several hadith which state that Gabriel had 600 wings. Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455:

..deleted

[ Last edited by whitepig on 24-12-2003 at 06:21 PM ]

Jukebox

61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
          Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
       All the horses of Egypt did not die
          Ex 14:9
     62. Moses feared Pharaoh
          Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
         Moses did not fear Pharaoh
          Heb 11:27
     63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
          Num 25:9
         There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
          1 Cor 10:8
   

In sura 2:142-144, we find the change of the Qibla, the direction of prayer from Mecca to Jerusalem, and back to Mecca.

The inheritance laws in suras 4:7; & 2:180, provides an equal share for women and men, and then is doubled for men in sura 4:11.

The change of night prayers from a full night in sura 73:2-4, to a half or less, or whatever was easy to do in sura 73:20.


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xmas bonus: your question on Jesus resurrection .. 3 days/nights
has been answered in FULL
http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=81579

[ Last edited by whitepig on 26-12-2003 at 09:22 AM ]

Can you guys please put the debate on hold just for today, Mr Jukebox and Mr Whitepig? Got EPL tonite lah. Besides everyone should have at least one day of rest.

Peace to all no matter who you are, may God have mercy on us sinners and I would like to ask all of you to pray in your own way that Bolton may lose to Liverpool today coz it's gonna take one heck of a miracle. For all those who have faith, just remember, "You'll never walk alone."

if Bolton lose then it is expected.. but if they win.. that is a miracle conception of the finest upset. yes but what did Bolton do to chelsea and Arsenal?

White pig would like to debate...but dun even know wut was quran and wut he doing is copy and paste......hehehehehehe ..... i suggest free your mind , open the quran try to read it ....... dun worry ur not converting....hhehehehehehe

Jonah pls use your real name Yunus/

u know wverything about everything?

Jukebox

Your post
Does Allah's day equal to 1,000 (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or
50,000 years (Sura 70:4)?

You must be illiterate or blind as the surah
22:47/32:5 was of number of days to man and what was
to him. The surah 70:4 was the number of days to the
angels and to man (when carrying out their duties to
judge the unbelievers)

.....
Your post -
How many gardens are there in paradise?

ONE: 39:73, 41:30 [the Garden], 57:21 [a Garden],
79:41 [the Garden], or
MANY: 18:31, 22:23, 35:33, 78:32 [each time:
"Gardens"]?

The plural "Gardens" has to refer to at least three
because if it/they were two, then the Arabic would use
the dual form of the noun. Therefore this is a
discrepancy of at least 200% from "one" to
"several".


There are 7 layers of garden in paradise, read all of
those surahs and you抣l understand. Example

Jukebox

jonah is right whitepig....

Jukebox

Your reply -
In sura 2:142-144, we find the change of the Qibla,
the direction of prayer from Mecca to Jerusalem, and
back to Mecca.

Those surah actually explains and answered your
question, read them! STOP copy and paste and come up
with something original. Evidently, you blindly copied
and pasted from websites in which you yourself had not
taken time to understand what it抯 all about厖

Your reply -
The inheritance laws in suras 4:7; & 2:180, provides
an equal share for women and men, and then is doubled
for men in sura 4:11.

Again, you didn抰 read the surahs didn抰 you. Show to
me in which sentence of An-Nisaa