How BIG is GOD?

kid

I have seen we sometime belittle God to our own imagination, to the extend equalize Him to our standard or our fantasy, we say God is exist "everywhere", while "everywhere" is limited to our imagination too, my brother in law once told me God is physically everywhere in fact He is also in the longkang in front of my house, what the hell is that, he equalized God to his tiny imagination, a blasphemy to God.

God is not made of something/materials we know, whatever we knows, surely it is not God, because they are bound to this universe, and everything inside this universe is creation. not the Creator Himself. We can't never knows the element of God because we will never escape this universe in first place.

When talking about God presence, actually we are talking about His "knowledge", it covers from the deepest jungle to the inner heart of men, His knowledge is closer than our jugular vein. Yes it is very easy for Him to do, it is hard for us to imagine.

And we know now that this observable universe contained billion-trillions planets like us, recent science study shows that there exist about 100 million planets similar like earth in our galaxy alone. Means there is high probability living being like us on those planets too as there are sufficient elements to support life.

And imagine His knowledge covers all of these planets and beings too, not even a single fallen leaf in the jungle in a distant planet escape His knowledge, this is like talking about ancient people seeing today's CCTV, they can't never understand how it is possible.

It doesn't mean God is sitting everywhere inside this universe physically, He is above the universe on His "throne". "Throne" doesn't mean like king's throne in our mere imagination, His "throne" covers all universe, so great in fact everything is within Him.

When talking about God, human tend to bring down God to a much powerless smaller nature, talking about His presence bring humbleness that we are actually nothing, even in our small galaxy we are considered nothing, not talking about the greater space beyond that.

- Does your God some entity or things in this world like saint, dewa, rabbi, animals etc? This is so absurd. This universe do not consist of our earth alone, living beings in other planets do not know your dewa, saint, etc.

- Does your God so big like the sun or million times bigger? this is so small, think again

- Does your God like million time bigger than this galaxy? think again, it is still small

- Does your God like bigger than this so called universe? think again... this is just observable universe.

So who/what is God?

We will never fully understand as God not of something in this universe, God do not ask us to understand Him. God just ask us to trust and obey Him alone because He knows exactly what best for us, He is the One who created us.

But the tendency of human is to trust something tha he can see by his eyes or feel by his hand, so they taken something and equalize it with God. Or taken something in his wild imagination and call it God.

The fact is, this vast entire madness of universe is well under Him, God covers all these, God is greater than all we know. The entire universe is within Him, He is so Big, so Great no words can describe. That is the truly All Powerful Almighty God.

So what is God according to your version?

vikramavardhana

We might go with contradictions when we speak about God, because, He is beyond imagination. For us, Brahminical Hindus, God is understood in various level of understanding to the people in question.

Hindu religions view those who worship personal gods, would be given anthromorphic explanations. For e.g God creates the Universe, God sustains it by Divine power and looking after the needs of its inhabitants and everything happens by God's will. Those who do not submit themselves to these doctrines would receive the ideas of God or His power is simply the emanation of mental creations and obscures the real experience of God which is the right of the individual himself.

The Highest level of the Spiritual Path is that, God is the Highest Self. God is only discovered when one realizes the very essence of himself.... So, we summarize these into... God is immanent and formless. God is just God. We, beings in the form of human are bounded by Maya (Illusion). Our physical body is part maya which is subjected to the trigunas (three basic elements of maya) and trigunas deluded these beings i.e human and genies (spirits) (Gita 7.13).

vikramavardhana

- Does your God some entity or things in this world like saint, dewa, rabbi, animals etc? This is so absurd. This universe do not consist of our earth alone, living beings in other planets do not know your dewa, saint, etc.

- Does your God so big like the sun or million times bigger? this is so small, think again

- Does your God like million time bigger than this galaxy? think again, it is still small

- Does your God like bigger than this so called universe? think again... this is just observable universe.

So who/what is God?

These are not the questions for us either God is big or God is little.... It depends on how you interpret these pronouncements on the nexus of individual souls with the Higest Self (Jivatman)...

1. Tat tvam asi (Chandogya upanishad 6.8.7, Samveda).
2. Prajnam Brahm (Aitareya upanishad 3.3, Rigveda)
3. Ayam Atma Brahm (Mandukya upanishad 1.2, Atharvaveda)
4. Aham Brahmasmi (Brihadranyaka upanishad 1.4.10, Yajurved)

The propoundment of the doctrine by Shri Guru Shankaracharya is also based on these evidence... Neti neti shrutirbruyanirtam panchabhautikam (avdhut gita 1.25)....Of those which is untrue are composed of the five elements...The Tejas (Fire), Ap (Water), Akash or Vyom (Ether), and Marut (Wind)... The word Ap is our cognate word with the Persian and Sumerian which is Ab

For your information, Shri Guru Shankaracharya is a reviver of the advaita vedanta view

zamkumis

vikramavardhana posted on 12-6-2014 12:21 AM
We might go with contradictions when we speak about God, because, He is beyond imagination. For us,  ...

What is trigunas?

wei_loon5063

- Does your God some entity or things in this world like saint, dewa, rabbi, animals etc? This is so absurd. This universe do not consist of our earth alone, living beings in other planets do not know your dewa, saint, etc.

- Does your God so big like the sun or million times bigger? this is so small, think again

- Does your God like million time bigger than this galaxy? think again, it is still small

- Does your God like bigger than this so called universe? think again... this is just observable universe.

So who/what is God?

We will never fully understand as God not of something in this universe, God do not ask us to understand Him. God just ask us to trust and obey Him alone because He knows exactly what best for us, He is the One who created us.

all those you are mentioning is FORM comparison. meaning, compare in term of dimension/magnitude.

ada tiga category realms.ni kamu boleh nampak dlm meditasi, DALAM HIDUP INI. tidak perlu tunggu mati.

FORMLESS REALMS

Realm	Cause of Rebirth	The Age Limit
(31)Sphere of Neither Perception nor Non-perception (nevasaññanasaññayatanupaga deva)	Fourth formless jhana (SamathaMeditation)	84,000 Mahãkappa
(30)Sphere of Nothingness (akiñcaññayatanupaga deva)	Third formless jhana (SamathaMeditation)	60,000 Mahãkappa
(29)Sphere of Infinite Consciousness (viññanañcayatanupaga deva)	Second formless jhana (SamathaMeditation)	40,000 Mahãkappa
(28)Sphere of Infinite Space (akasanañcayatanupaga deva)	First formless jhana (SamathaMeditation)	20,000 Mahãkappa

SENSUAL REALMS - ni lah yg syurga atau jannah yg u maksudkan.

Realm	Cause of Rebirth	The Age Limit
(11)These devas enjoy sense pleasures created by others for them. Mara, the personification of delusion and desire, lives here (paranimmita-vasavatti deva)	Ten wholesome actions-Generosity	16,000 Celestial years 1 day = 1,600 human years
(10)Devas who Delight in Creating (nimmanarati deva)	Ten wholesome actions-Generosity	8,000 Celestial years 1 day = 800 human years
(9) Heaven of Delight Bodhisatta's Penultimate Existence (tusita deva)	Ten wholesome actions-Generosity	4,000 Celestial years 1 day = 400 human years
(8) Yama devas (yama deva)	The development of virtue and wisdom	2,000 Celestial years 1 day = 200 human years
(7) The Thirty-three Gods Sakka resides here (tavatimsa deva)	The development of virtue and wisdom	1,000 Celestial years 1 day = 100 human years
(6) Devas of the Four Great Kings (catumaharajika deva)	The development of virtue and wisdom	500 Celestial years 1 day = 50 human years
(5) Human beings (You are here for now) Rebirth as a human being is extraordinarily rare. It is also extraordinarily precious, as its unique balance of pleasure and pain facilitates the development of virtue and wisdom to the degree necessary to set one free from the entire cycle of rebirths (samsara) (manussa loka)	The development of virtue and wisdom The attainment of stream-entry (sotapatti)guarantees that all future rebirths will be in the human or higher realms and not more than seven existences	10 years upwards Average Life-span varies depending on kama, but cannot exceed the age limit that exist any one time

dalam quantum mechanics, seperti yg vijra & saya maksudkan, kita adalah being of vibrationing energy. bila mati, badan dan minda reput dan jadi bentuk tenaga lain. macam dinosaur mati, mayat jadi fossil fuel, fossil fuel jadi petrol, petrol jadi bahan bakar.

mental state anda yg anda hidup tu akan attract by same frequency of energy realms. seperti yg allah suruh kau buat baik, buat baik jgn buat jahat.  bila kau berbuat baik, minda anda akan jadi pure energy.

anggaplah ni bual kosong,  

wei_loon5063

zamkumis posted on 12-6-2014 10:16 AM
What is trigunas?

ada satu cerita yg famous...

bahawa satu raja rasa bosan, dia suruh 4 org buta sejak lahir yg tak pernah nampak gajah, dia suruh diaorg cerita bahawa apa tu gajah.

A cakap gajah macam dinding- iatu badan
B cakap gajah macam kipas - iatu telinga
C cakap gajah macam ulah - iatu belalai
D cakap gajah tu macam cacing - iatu ekor

keempat empat buta tu gaduh sesama sendiri. kalaulah mereka berdamai, berkongsi pendapat, dan join sendiri pendapat masing masing, maka nampak lah seekor gajah.

ni nampak perbezaan antara agama. tapi tak tau agama berbeza dari segi budaya. cth: muslim melayu, muslim cina, muslim america, muslim amerika, semua berbeza budaya. takakan nak bezakan?

cuba faham konsep kenapa agama ni cakap begini, bukannya, kamu salah saya betul cam buta tu tak nak terima pendapat rog lain

vikramavardhana

zamkumis posted on 12-6-2014 02:16 AM
What is trigunas?

Major elements recognized by the Samkhya (empirical) observation... Tendencies of the Prakrti (universal nature, fitra) is observed as fundamentally functioning in three principles...... the Sattva, Rajas, Tamas... These are Trigunas associated to creation (sattva), destruction or evolution (rajas), and tamas (preservation).... The entire universe and the process of its evolution is carried out by these gunas (strands)...

The World deluded by these Three Gunas does not know Me: Who is beyond these Gunas and imperishable. (Bhagvadgita 7.13)

vikramavardhana

wei_loon5063 posted on 12-6-2014 06:09 AM
ada satu cerita yg famous...

bahawa satu raja rasa bosan, dia suruh 4 org buta sejak lahir yg  ...

This is epistemology which is also propounded in Modern Social and Political Studies in universities. It is from Dhyana Buddhism (Zen)

kid

@vikramavardhana

I dont see we are in contradiction when you also said that God is beyond imagination.

Anyhow I'm not really clear when you started talking about Fire, Water, Ether etc...

What are you trying to say exactly? That God composed of those elements?

vikramavardhana

kid posted on 16-6-2014 03:48 PM
@vikramavardhana

I dont see we are in contradiction when you also said that God is beyond imagin ...

Those elements were technically emerged from God. In your understanding, fire, water and those elements created their selves on their own? Then, that is atheism since they only recognize things at the level of maya (universe) which is the second reality in the dualists view Those element were known as the panch mahabhoot tattva... all creations in this universe, including human were "physically" made up of these five essential elements. When we die, these elements would be dissolved again into the universe (Tattva Kaumudi, Vacaspati). You can see your physics but not your spirit. spirit is you subtle body. It also emerged from God. Can you get this? This is how we perceive the God, the Universe and creations including mankind. Mankind is special in their form to achieve mukti but they are not unique in the elements which formed their physics... Differentiate what is "roh" and what is "jasad" then you'll get what we're talking about. Roh is from God, jasad is also from God. I've heard Muslim always say that everything including my hands, my head, my eyes, my senses belong to God. Then what about your "roh", it is your own belonging or your God's belonging?

LUNCH

Tuhan tak besar ataupun kecil. Tuhan adalah neutral ada dalam setiap jiwa manusia.

wei_loon5063

vikramavardhana posted on 17-6-2014 12:58 AM
Those elements were technically emerged from God. In your understanding, fire, water and those ele ...

Those element were known as the panch mahabhoot tattva... all creations in this universe, including human were "physically" made up of these five essential elements. When we die, these elements would be dissolved again into the universe (Tattva Kaumudi, Vacaspati). You can see your physics but not your spirit. spirit is you subtle body.

[size=14.399999618530273px]The third reality or paramattha dhamma is ruupa, matter or material form. In its analysis of matter the Abhidhamma recognizes twenty-eight kinds of material phenomena. Four of these are called primary, twenty-four secondary. The secondary kinds are dependant on the primary.

The four primary elements (cattaari mahaa bhuutaani)

[size=14.399999618530273px]These are metaphorically referred to under their ancient names but signify distinct properties of matter:

• The Earth element (pa.thavi dhaatu) = solidity
• The Water element (aapo dhaatu) = adhesion
• The Fire element (tejo dhaatu) = heat
• The Wind element (vaayo dhaatu) = motion
  

[size=14.399999618530273px]There is no unit of matter that does not contain these four elements in varying proportions. The preponderance of one element over the other three gives the material object its main characteristic.

[size=14.399999618530273px]The solid element gives consistency to matter varying from hardness to softness. The more predominant the solid element, the firmer the object. This is also the element of extension by virtue of which objects occupy space. It has the function of supporting the other material phenomena.

[size=14.399999618530273px]The adhesion element has a cohesive function. It holds the particles of matter together and prevents them from scattering. It predominates in liquids because, unlike solids, liquids unite when brought together. This adhesion element is intangible.

[size=14.399999618530273px]The heat element accounts for an object's temperature. An object is hot or cold depending on the amount of heat element. This element has the function of maturing or vitalizing. It accounts for preservation and decay.

[size=14.399999618530273px]The motion element imparts motion and causes expansion and contraction.

[size=14.399999618530273px]In the Mahaa Raahulovaada Sutta ([size=14.399999618530273px]MN 62) the Buddha explains these four elements in concrete terms to his son, the Venerable Raahula. He says:

[size=14.399999618530273px]

[size=14.399999618530273px]"The earth element may be internal (i.e., referable to an individual) or it may be external. Regarding the internal, whatever is hard, solid, or derived therefrom, such as hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, and various organs, is the earth element. Whatever is an internal earth element and whatever is an external earth element are just earth element.

[size=14.399999618530273px]"The water element may be internal or external. Regarding the internal, whatever is liquid and derived therefrom, such as bile, phlegm, pus, and blood is the water element. Whatever is an internal water element and whatever is an external water element are just water element.

[size=14.399999618530273px]"The fire element may be internal or external. Regarding the internal, whatever is heat, warmth, and derived therefrom, such as that by which one is vitalized, consumed, or burnt up, and that by which the ingested food is digested, this is the fire element. Whatever is an internal fire element and whatever is an external fire element are just fire element.

[size=14.399999618530273px]"The wind element may be internal or external. Regarding the internal, whatever is motion, wind, and derived therefrom, such as the winds going up and down, winds in the belly, winds that shoot across the limbs, inbreathing and outbreathing, is the wind element. Whatever is an internal wind element and whatever is an external wind element are just wind element."

[size=11.199999809265137px]— [size=11.199999809265137px]MN 62

[size=14.399999618530273px]In this sutta the Buddha also describes the space element (aakaasa dhaatu) which, he says, may likewise be internal or external: "Regarding the internal, whatever is space, spacious and derived therefrom, such as the different orifices and cavities in the body, is the space element. Whatever is the internal space element and whatever is the external space element are just space element."

[size=14.399999618530273px]It will be noted that in each instance the Buddha pointed out a fundamental identity between the internal and the external elements. The significance of this will be discussed later.

The secondary elements (upaadaaya ruupaani)

[size=14.399999618530273px]The twenty-four secondary elements are divided into two groups. Like the four primary elements, fourteen are directly caused (nipphanna). These are essentially particles of matter. The other ten are indirectly caused (anipphanna). These are only the properties of the directly caused elements and are not particles of matter. Therefore, this classification covers both the physical and functional aspects of matter.

[size=14.399999618530273px]Directly caused secondary elements comprise the following:

• Five sensory receptors (pasaada ruupaani): the sensory matter of the eye (cakkhu pasaada), ear (sota pasaada), nose (ghaana pasaada), tongue (jivhaa pasaada), and body (kaaya pasaada).
• Four stimulation elements (gocara ruupaani): color (va.n.na), sound (sadda), odor (gandha), and taste (rasa). Tactile sensation is not mentioned in this group because, unlike the others, tactile sense is not a unique sensory element but three of the four primary elements — solidity, heat and motion — which account for the object's pressure, texture, heat and resistance. The exception is the element of adhesion which is far too subtle to create any tactile impression. Whereas tactile stimuli evoke either pain or pleasure, the other four stimuli arouse only a neutral feeling.
• Two sex elements (bhaava ruupaani): the male (purisa bhaava) or the female (itthi bhaava), which comes into being at the moment of conception determining the person's sex. This sex determination is related to kamma.
• The heart or mind-base element (hadaya vatthu): in the Buddha's time the view was held that the heart forms the seat of consciousness. The Buddha never accepted or rejected this theory. He referred to the basis of consciousness indirectly as: ya.m ruupa.m nissaaya — "that material thing depending on which mind-element and mind-consciousness-element arise." Since mind and matter are inter-dependent, it is reasonable to conclude that by the phrase "that material thing" the Buddha intended any tissue in the body that can function as a basis for consciousness, except those serving as the basis for sensory consciousness. We can understand it as the living nerve cell.
• The life element (jiivitindriya): just as the psychic life faculty, one of the universal mental factors, vitalizes the mind and its factors, the physical life faculty vitalizes the organic matter of the body. Born of kamma, it is reproduced from moment to moment. Both psychic life and physical life cease with death.
• The nutriment element (aahaara ruupa): is the nutritive essence which sustains the body.
  

[size=14.399999618530273px]Indirectly caused secondary elements are:

• The space element (aakaasa dhaatu): this is what keeps the material units apart and prevents their fusion. It is not an objective reality but a concept that results from the coming into being of the material units.
• Two intimating elements (viññatti): these are bodily intimation (kaaya viññatti) and verbal intimation (vaci viññatti), responsible repectively for bodily communication and verbal communication. They are called "intimation" because they make possible communication between beings. These two elements occur seventeen times more rapidly than the other physical elements, being equal in duration to a thought unit. In physiological terms they probably correspond to nerve impulses.
• Three alterable elements (vikaara ruupaani):
  • buoyancy (lahutaa)
  • pliancy (mudutaa)
  • eficiency (kammaññataa)
    
  [size=14.399999618530273px]These elements are responsible for health, vigor and activity of the body. They are brought about by wholesome thought, moderation in eating habits and favorable climate.
• Four phase elements (lakkha.na ruupaani):
  • initial arising (upacaya)
  • subsequent genesis (santati)
  • decay (jarataa)
  • ceasing (aniccataa)
    
  [size=14.399999618530273px]These are stages in the life duration of an element in a continual process of change

vikramavardhana

Basically I know how Muslim theology on either sides (Sunni or Shia) works. I even read your theologians literature works which I do not have to mention "them" here

vikramavardhana

Tuhan is beyond imagination but the difference between us is in the concept of "theophany" and we have two modes of worshiping the God in our worship activities. The way we view the connection of God and creations is different to you since we have both the crude, and polished view according to the level of the Hindus thought. We do not generalize our religious adherents into a lump but we have prescriptions for them to approach the Universal Truth, the Highest Self

Dzulqarnain

Then, why do we need to ask His creation, but not Himself?
- Just ask Him..

When My servants ask thee concerning Me
I am indeed close (to them)
I listen to the prayer of every suppliant
when he calleth on Me
Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call
and believe in Me
That they may walk in the right way.
(QS 2:30)

kid

That is exactly what I meant, why dont we ask God how big is Him?

First, He is the Lord of all worlds, Quran 1:2
Rabbul A'lameen - Lords of the worlds.

So God is not only the Lord of this earth, but He is also Lords of other "earths", the number of worlds in this universe are countless, we always thought the whole universe is only about us, we forgot the vast numbers of planets and other dimensions in the universe.

Second, in Quran told us in the end times God will fold the whole universe by His right hand!
Imagine how BIG is God, the entire universe can be folded by His right hand only.

Third, Quran 42:11 - there is nothing like Him.
We sometime belittle God and equalize Him by our standard, while He is nothing like the creation.
So when talking about element like Fire, Water etc... Are you trying to equalize God with those finite elements? Those are creation and not God Himself.

By the way I'm not Sunni nor Shia.

wei_loon5063

kid posted on 18-6-2014 09:20 PM
That is exactly what I meant, why dont we ask God how big is Him?

First, He is the Lord of all wo ...

A muslim member here once mention allah create countless earth and star in order to support us, human

plz correct me if i am wrong

Dzulqarnain

kid posted on 18-6-2014 09:20 PM
That is exactly what I meant, why dont we ask God how big is Him?

First, He is the Lord of all wo ...

So God is not only the Lord of this earth, but He is also Lords of other "earths", the number of worlds in this universe are countless, we always thought the whole universe is only about us, we forgot the vast numbers of planets and other dimensions in the universe.

This is a typical common mistake most people misunderstood
got confused in using both the word 'world' (dunia) and 'earth' (bumi/ardh)

There's only one earth, the soil that you stand on
and it will only be destroyed by 'the blow' at the end of time (the Hour)
- The oldest creature denominated as 'mother earth'...before the creation of men

But 'worlds' (dunia2) strictly means the lifetime of men (hayat) - age, epoch, generations, etc.
and this is subjected to the 'time' any realm took place/wherebouts on earth

Globalisation has put together all worlds into one nation (united) - new world order
Imperialised to regions, colonialised to nation state

There's only one timeline exists - marked by the stars
and even you believe in 'the cow jump over the moon'
that is how you believe men left their bootprints on its surface
- ofkos not the dark side (the other side) where you can't broadcast...

You don't need scientific proof to be faithful
at the end of the day you'll end up bounded with errors and uncertainties
then how to increase your level of beliefs with decreasing certainties?


p/s: Believers never swallow such 'alien invasion' to fight in any war...