Why Malaysia's government allow religion banned by China operating in Malaysia?

I accidentally search this web site which is from The Ministry of Public Security of the People's Republic of China. In this web site, it said about this yi-kuan dao religion which was banned in year 1950 in China. This religion classified as a lost religion but one thing very important to be notified. It is allow in Malaysia!!!!!!

http://www.mps.gov.cn/cenweb/brj ... BC00000000000032827

Sephiroth

Malaysia don't have to entertain China in this matter. :no:

China also have banned Taoism and Buddhism since 1960s, are you saying Malaysia should entertain that also JUST to please some Atheist fools? ;)

IF this religious groups possess no problem to Laws and Order and Society in Malaysia, I don't see why Malaysian Government shouldn't allow it.

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 30-10-2006 08:32 AM
Malaysia don't have to entertain China in this matter. :no:

China also have banned Taoism and Buddhism since 1960s, are you saying Malaysia should entertain that also JUST to please some Atheist ...

Last time of this falungong, malaysia on hold on the activity of falungong in malaysia because try to be good relationship with China. And dun mistaken, if Malaysia really want to have better partnership with China, this religion should be banned too. China didnot banned Taoism and Buddhism, and only not allow to pray on them. However, today we still can see these element in China, only that this Yi-kuan Dao is totally banned and classified as lost religion. This make alot of different. Today we still can see this shao lin shi at China, but these Yi-kuan dao follower in China will totally be executed.

Sephiroth

Originally posted by forum_one at 30-10-2006 06:26 PM


Last time of this falungong, malaysia on hold on the activity of falungong in malaysia because try to be good relationship with China. And dun mistaken, if Malaysia really want to have better p ...

Oh ... I'm sorry, hundreds of people (both Taoists and Buddhist Monks/Nuns) who have lived through the hard times during Cultural Revolution between 1950s and 1960s MUST HAVE LIED then. ;)

China had banned ALL religious practise and even forced Monks and Nuns (both Taoists and Buddhists) out of their monastery by beating them and dragging them to the streets. I have seen interviews on this people who have experience the brutality themselves and even today, STILL have markings on their body and terrible aches which follows.

For all you should know, Yiguan Dao groups are making inroads into China. They have re-entered the mainland under the disguise of businessmen. They address their masters (dian chuan shi) as 'manager' (jingli) when they are in the public.

Yiguan Dao prospered in Taiwan province. It was initially banned too under the basis that it shares many similarities with the menacing White Lotus Sect (Bai Lian Jiao). It was later lifted when many of its religious leaders observed self-endurance. Their perseverance to not resort to violence had won them the trust of the government.

Impressive as it might be, its religious leaders could not prevent Yiguan Dao from branching out to new form of devious teachings. Today, all the old guards have died leaving only one, still alive.

Felon Goon on the other hand, ought to be banned INDEFINITELY. It is a commercialized form of traditional exercise by combining Qigong, Taichi and religious elements. Such a rojak organization is nothing but deceitful.

And India banned Buddhism too. It happened in-the-past. So, I guess to someone, it still happens today.

[ Last edited by  Adm_Cheng_Ho at 31-10-2006 03:11 PM ]

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 31-10-2006 03:10 PM
For all you should know, Yiguan Dao groups are making inroads into China. They have re-entered the mainland under the disguise of businessmen. They address their masters (dian chuan shi) as 'manage ...

Adm_Cheng_Ho,
I found out in the China's history, there is alot of secret organization using religion strength to increase their army force. You know the laughing Buddha, right? Which also this yi-kuan dao admired alot, had been appear in quite many time in China history. Most of the organisation using this Buddhism in believe of the reborn of Language Buddha to save them. These head of secret organisation in past China called themselves as a laughing buddha. It is a good thing to banned yi-kuan dao in China, as it lesser this tipu helah of those people who want to use buddha as a tools.

Sephiroth

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 31-10-2006 03:10 PM
For all you should know, Yiguan Dao groups are making inroads into China. They have re-entered the mainland under the disguise of businessmen. They address their masters (dian chuan shi) as 'manage ...

And who decides whether something is deceitful or not? O_o

If you want deceit, try China's Atheist/Communist Government. You will not find another "wolf in the sheep's cloth" anywhere else. ;)

One example - China banned Christianity as well as other religious practise since 1950s, but now, in order to control the mass better, it restarts Christianity BUT by placing it under its direct control. China controls who will be the Bishop, Arch-Bishop and such in Christian community and most likely this "puppets" will be used as "strings" to control the ignorant masses.

Evil will bring in more evil to bind the ignorant. ;)

And where did you get notion that India BANNED Buddhism? Don't make stupid comments. ff:

Wong Onn Yong

Did us discussed about Yi Kuan Tao cult or not? It was long time ago already, just talk about money not really practice

Sephiroth

by Wong Onn Yong   

Did us discussed about Yi Kuan Tao cult or not? It was long time ago already, just talk about money not really practice  

And WHICH PART of Chinese Culture (whether in China or Malaysia) which DOES NOT revolve around money? ;)

Biggest problem with Chinese people is their materialistic quality overlaps their desire for Spiritual one. Everything MUST be "untung-rugi" calculation (gain-loss). And because of that, Chinese people go and rely on Luck so much - which is why so many people willing to gamble and believe in Feng Shui even when Buddha (both Gautama and Amida) have spoken against it.

lovebuzz

it's funny how some people here mock the religion of others and call for a ban on religion just like that, without realizing the overall implication of such actions.

do you know that the communist government had been pressuring malaysia to ban certain religious groups for some time now and if we were to do so it would only meant that we had lose our soul and forgotten our history? whatever happened to freedom of religion enshrined in the constitution? we betray our forefather's hardwork of 50 years of and independence if we allow foreign forces to intervene in our policies and turn into communist's lapdog.
  
in china falun gong practitioners are a very oppressed bunch so i wouldn't wna make fun of them. they are tortured and thrown into forced labor camps if not slain in the masses. all the while the communist party continue to deflect attention by pointing their fingers at japan and koizumi's visit to war shrines when what they are committing unto their own people are much worse than what the japs ever did.

i've worked with falun gong practitioners and i could tell you that they are no rojak organization. they are very well organized and not the least deceitful. most of all i'm impressed with their perseverance through adversity and their courage to speak out against communist tyranny.

[ Last edited by  lovebuzz at 6-11-2006 12:01 AM ]

I am IN the felon goons. So, what makes you think I know nothing about them?

They combined qigong, taichi, daoism, buddhism and even christianity to form a new type of religion and exercise. Is this not rojak?

I've seen 'friends' pretending they're strong enough to overcome sickness without going to the doctors. I've seen how they spread lies about the Chinese government and omitted their fellow members' wrong doings in shopping complexes here in JB. Are these not deceitful?

Truth be told! You don't need felon goon to know the essence of 'qi' exercises. We don't need caplang exercise. I'd advise people to learn from the ORIGINALS - Qigong and Taichi in its originality.

There are efforts by this group to incite hatred towards the Chinese government in its smear campaign. Even here in this forum by a poster named 'Juna'. I've been observing this group for almost two years. Whenever this little Juna posts something from Epoch Times, a mouthpiece for Felon Goon, the same post appears in other forums like Crisscross Japan Forum, albeit different posters. I've engaged with these people so I know each of them.

I've been monitoring this group and I've read its books from cover-to-cover. Somehow, I'm immune to it. If all the people in a country embrace felon goons, its economy would collapse! They even used Tanzania government's name in their lies and were later rebuked by the said government and an official whitepaper was issued to denounce the group.

Whatever it is, do remember that your friends may not know what they are doing. As had been said, in your own words, this is an organization. All members are merely following its system.

So, no. I don't think I'm that 'ignorant'.

lovebuzz

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 6-11-2006 04:03 PM
I am IN the felon goons. So, what makes you think I know nothing about them?

They combined qigong, taichi, daoism, buddhism and even christianity to form a new type of religion and exercise. Is  ...

i'm not a falun gong practitioner so im not obliged to jump into their defence concerning their teachings but if you are even aware, religions including mainstream ones have been borrowing from one another since mankind knew how to bow to stones. the only reason you can call an oppressed person's belief rojak is because of political correctness. delve into the history of judaism, christianity or islam and i wonder if you dare also can them rojak.

but no matter, religion bashing is not my interest. im interested in your claim that falun gong, an exercise movement which had existed peacefully in malaysia for the past few years, should indefinately be banned in malaysia. and im not utterly convinced with your reasons.

if your 'friends' refuse to see a doctor than it's their choice. im an atheist and i've been playing computer games for the past the past few weeks and refusing to eat so yeah, go ahead and ban atheism or better still ban computer games.

if you know anything about the history of falun gong and the communist government you would know that your beloved communist premier, jiang zemin is the one who initiated the ban on falun gong in 1999 and started churning out hate propaganda against them.

and why only in 1999 when falun gong had existed in china since 92? because in those 7 years the communist government was busy lauding and praising falun gong. it is only when the number of practitioners grew until it outnumbered the communist party and the leader left for united states that the ccp started becoming worried. so take a break from ccp propaganda and chew on this.

as for epoch times, it has been more than a falun gong mouthpiece. it provided alternative news to ccp propaganda and exposed the inner workings of the corrupted communist party. do even know that there was a SARS epidemic in beijing that the communist were trying to cover up until epoch times reported on it.

and if you would please explain how falun gong practitioners would contribute to the collapse of an economy because i find this statement xenophobic, like what hitler claimed about the jews.

and i did not say that falun gong is an organization where everyone must follow. i said they are well organized because occasionally they would hold truth rallies and press conferences to debunk communist propaganda and they pretty are apt at it.

and strange that you even mention about blindly following because i realized that you had a link to a confucius website. do you know that confucian teachings had been twisted by the communist party to make obedience to the government become of paramount importance. i dread to think which government you answer to.

Let me put it this way.

Everyone is free to practise his or her belief. They are entitled the freedom to pursue their interest. They have the right to hold their opinion. And they can freely express their thought.

Up to this point, I believe you are in concurrence with me because you believe in freedom. At least, that is what I understand of you.

So, everybody is free to do the things they like, say the things they want.

But there will arise conflict of interests where the right of one person affects the right of another person. Thus, there is a limit to what a person can do. Therefore, there has to be a system to regulate people's behaviour so that other people's rights are not impinged. So, rules are there to better facilitate human interactions. Is it not?

As you can see, there is no such thing as 'total freedom'.

Falun Gong believers are free to pursue their interest. They are free to hold their opinion. They can freely express their thought. They are free to practise their belief.

But when this group manifest the tendency to pose security threat to the society, they ceased to be a peaceful group.

Where lies the security threat, you may ask?

There were complaints by relatives and neighbours of Falun Gong followers. They reported heretic practises which resulted in deaths. Consequently, the authority have to act. They have to step in. They are required to investigate. They will have to tell the people their findings. It is their responsibility. ANY RESPONSIBLE PERSON AND GOVERNMENT the world over would look into the matter. Wouldn't you? We would like to know what happen to our friends, relatives or the citizen?

So, the authorities conduct an investigation. Expectedly, there are things they don't understand and would require explanations from the leaders. So, they summoned a few leaders for questioning.

During the interrogation sessions, not only the officials were unable to understand some of the concepts and jargons expounded by members of FLG, you can say they are ignorant in the first place and especially so when they are required to understand them in such a short time, but they also find some of the claims bizarre like the theories of supernatural powers, aliens, Li Hongzhi is of higher being...etc. Asked to prove it, the supernatural powers, they don't want to show it. Ok, fine. So, these people will have to be re-questioned to gauge the veracity of their statements.

This resulted in their time of release being delayed. Perhaps, this was the contributing factor to their misunderstanding. The officials have to report to their superiors. How can they just release the men and submit the reports without clarity? This is tantamount to submitting inconclusive reports, something which only in Bolehland is permissable. But even in Bolehland, when it comes to religion, they're very particular about it. So, the officials video taped what they say. "Wo shi shen" (I am God/Deity) said a man. I think that is one of the disturbing points I've seen in the video. This footage was also broadcasted on TV3 few years ago.

From here onwards is where your version of the story begins.

About 10,000 Falun Gong members gathered outside the headquarters of the government demanding the release of their members. This is the problem.

Of course, I can appreciate the point that members of the sect are worried. Some might even feel panicked. They view the delay as 'detention' instead of 'clarification'.

Even so, they have no reason to get so INTIMIDATING. They don't need to organize 10,000 people to protest. By protesting, they are challenging government authority. By challenging government authority in such manner, they are manifesting their potential to cause INSTABILITY to the society.

I am of the opinion that FLG ought to cooperate with the authorities to investigate malpractises amongst its members to ensure no deviation from its teachings.

But they chose to OPPOSE 'government procedure' in a show of aggressiveness.

What can I say?

FLG members refuse to cooperate. And they are not to be touched. This is to me, absurd! Instead of working along with the authorities to tackle the problems of fallacies and reprimand offending members, they chose to push all the blames to the government. They turn around and say they were intimidated. So, they oppose. By doing so, we can conclude they are REBELLING. And rebellion would yield bloodshed, something which the government wants to avoid. Before the group can grow larger, it has to be nipped in the bud.

But they become more menacing.

When a religious organization carries political overtone to topple the government, it ceased to be a peaceful religious group but a political movement!

This has been my contention. I don't see them as peaceful but a time bomb.

It is not their disaproval of the government I find disturbing. It is their animosity and hatred that I feel staggering. I can't imagine what would happen when our government impose restrictions on them. They have such consuming passion against government regulation which I find out of place!

My personal experience with the group has rendered me feeling more repugnant! I don't think they know my thought, though.

They are not peaceful when you look at their speeches. In most occasions, they refuse to discuss certain issues personally. Often times, I was referred to their websites. 'THEIR' websites. Other than that, I am told to attend their seminars or talks which is one-way flow, meaning the speaker is shoving all his or her views unto us the listeners. I feel deprived of my right to know from my own way. It is no different from MLM way of doing things.

Likewise, everybody can do business. We can trade and make money as long it does not involve cheating. Get-rich-quick scheme is also a business. But they have no right to tell lies. Other people have the rights to know the whole truth. The people can demand the authority to investigate the truth of a matter. You cannot say the product you are selling can cure many illnesses and so don't need the doctors. And so we outlawed get-rich-quick schemes.

Similarly, the same elements of dishonesty lies within the organization of FLG. Their books are full of errors. If you read the Falun Gong bible, the founder says rocks, woods and even the wall can talk to you. And he claims Brahmanism battled with Buddhism which produces Hinduism in the end. There are way too many preposterous claims which are baseless.

Their refusal to denounce errant followers in the first place seems like condoning their actions. Or trying to conceal their dirty linen from the public? They forcefully hacked into TV station to broadcast their version of the story. They lied about the Tanzania issue. They did a whole lot of things which are deemed irrational and aggressive. For these reasons, I view them as having the potential to 'explode' into violence.

The notion of miracle cure is utterly misleading, though denied of its advocacy but is prevalent in the organization. This is the symptom of a sick society. It begins in the mind. For this, it is harmful to the society.

Their exercises in the park is just part of the scheme to attract new members. Avid followers will then be encouraged to join the religion and then their political cause and finally the movement.

If everybody spends most of their time in the organization like keep listening to talks and keep indulging in the twisted version of artistic movement of the body, spreading hate messages against the government without other activities which contributes productively to the economy, the nation would collapse!

Therefore, I don't see why it should be promoted. I should be rightly banned from causing further damage to the society.

Your post indicates that you made the assumption I know nothing about FLG. You give me a brief historical accounts of events. You resort to associating me with the CCP by claiming Jiang Zemin as my 'beloved' leader. You even thought I was seeking your approval to have the FLG banned by convincing you of something.

You are out of touch with the flow of discussion! I was merely expressing my view in the cyberspace. Get real, mate!

RedChaSiew

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 7-11-2006 02:20 PM
They combined qigong, taichi, daoism, buddhism and even christianity to form a new type of religion and exercise. Is this not rojak?.

no. i called it versatility. if you can mold 5 diff elements into one and mkt it to the masses - more power to you.
:tq:

lovebuzz

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 7-11-2006 02:20 PM
Let me put it this way.

Everyone is free to practise his or her belief. They are entitled the freedom to pursue their interest. They have the right to hold their opinion. And they can freely exp ...

coming from the same country i find your ideal of freedom very dubious. if anything, we don't need a system that targets a particular group because of different religious beliefs. and rules are there to protect the rights of citizens not discriminate against them.

your remark that this group manifest the tendency to a pose security threat clearly lacks support. they had coexisted in our country peacefully and just like you and me, had contributed to national building, not starving themselves to death. in fact the real security threat were those who took up arms against our country and plunged our country into national emergency in the 50's and 60's. and now you aspire to live under their system?

also the story you told did not reflect the whole picture. the communist government wasn't merely investigating into some complaints by neighbours one fine day and decided that falungong is bad for health. like i said before falun gong had been around in china since 1992 with the communist's blessings and they only decided to ban them in 1999 after their popularity outgrew the ccp.

and mind you its not a just a ban they are after because jiang zemin, in his warped sense of mind, seeks to destroy falun gong all out, not unlike that of the jewish holocaust. on July 20, 1999, thousands of falungong practitioners were arrested, houses were ransacked and properties confiscated. following the incident, followers decided to gather peacefully at the National Appeals Bureau and appeal for the release of their family members at the same time, reiterating their stand that they mean no harm to the government.
   
you claim that they rebelled against the government and yield blooshed. so how much blood had they shed? how many houses have they burnt? how many buildings have they bombed? you couldn't name any because obviously these are not the kind of things they resort to.

and having failed to find any fault with them, you have to harp on to communist propaganda produced by ccp controlled media such as xinhua news agency and cctv which churned out stories of self-starvation and self-immolation when it could have occured to you that they obviously had been starved and beaten to death by ccp officials but no, you chose to believe that they did it unto themselves.

you claimed that they are not peaceful when you look at their speeches so point out to me one? i had also attented their talks and forums and can say that there are absolutely no hate rhetorics or political agendas, only clear denouncement of communist oppression in a right and civil manner and everyone gets the chance to speak, its a public forum afterall. perhaps you just lack the courage to stand up and walk to the mic during the Q&A. these issues are covered by human rights organizations such as SUARAM and the malaysian BAR council and you can see that ccp's human rights violation are of obvious concern to everyone.  

the hacking incident is pending investigation but whoever did it will by meted justice nonetheless. the tanzania incident DID in fact took place where a top chinese official was produced in court for human rights violation but the tanzania government later went out to vehemently deny it in order to safeguard better economic ties with the ccp.

i still find your statement concerning falungong practitioners and economic collapse very slanderous. it shows your lack of understanding for who they are, besides that which is fed to you by communist propaganda and to accuse them for something which is not even happening is spreading needless fear. can you name me a country in which its economy collapse because of falungong practitioners? do you know that in malaysia, falun gong practitioners number less that a thousand and they all hold active jobs in all sectors of this country, thus contributing to the economy and nation building. they could be teaching your kids, tending your lawn or even handling your lawsuit.

on the other hand i can tell you of the fall of berlin wall and the dissolution of the USSR because the agrarian economy cannot be sustained by the communists and their failed ideals. so im sure we can do away with the 'falungong do nothing but starve themselves to death' stereotype already.

i understand you have some opinions of their teachings, and had been directed to their websites, which led me to believe that you have not engage with any of them past your computer screen. if you can look past the veil of communist propaganda and go out to learn more about them, then you'll realize that falungong is not the real enemy. i too might not believe in their teachings but the suffering they go through is totally needless and if we were to implement a ban, then it would be a loss for us and a victory for the communist regime.

Wrong. Rules are not there to target a particular group. Rules and laws are there to ensure each person's rights are protected. It is meant to address peoples who VIOLATES the rules or laws NOT BECAUSE OF different (religious) belief.

FLG followers have their rights. Non-FLG people also have their rights. Both have their own rights. But you merely speak for FLG's rights. Therefore, your understanding of freedom and human rights are flawed.

Majority of the people who does not practise FLG have the right to be safe. FLG have NO RIGHT to jeopardise the safety of the public by their IRRESPONSIBLE and hysteric actions.

I did not say felon gooners are starving themselves to death. You made that up. I only say they are unproductive.

Before 1999, FLG's popularity had outgrown the CCP. And you had acknowledged that the government supported and 'blessed' the group before 1999. Therefore, your argument of BECAUSE OF it had outgrown the CCP after 1999 is invalid.

A ban also entails rooting out. You don't ban a thing and then leave it operational. It serves no purpose to the ban. We don't ban drugs whilst allowing it to be on sale in the market. The crackdown and ban on FLG was a result of its uncooperative attitude and the protest incident. Not the other way round.

I did not say their rebellion HAD yielded bloodshed. I only say their rebellion WOULD yield bloodshed. The difference is the former is holding back its action while the latter is a determined confrontation. A determined confrontation would usually happen when the group feel confident they have grown sufficiently powerful. Such a scenario of religious rebellion happened several times in Chinese history, such as the Yellow Turban Sect, the White Lotus Sect and the Christians in Taiping Rebellion.

The fact that the government supported and 'blessed' the FLG before 1999 shows that it has no problem with religious freedom. It has no problem with the Buddhists, Taoists and today's Christians. As long they are peaceful. But FLG showed its aggressiveness. From then on everything changed. That's the distinction from the rest. In order to avoid unnecessary disturbance and even chaotic bloodshed in the event of a determined confrontation, the group has to be banned. I think the government is being responsible.

The self-immolation incident is a fact. I have no doubt about it even though I have listened and read their version of the story and see their video explanations. You cannot and have no justification whatsoever to say the police dealt the self-immolation group with hard-handed approach to the extent it killed people while at the same time those who set fire on themselves are also communist actors who planned the act and went along with them. You don't do things when you don't even know who is who in your group. Especially so when such acts were a planned move.

Their speeches are not peaceful. They called for the government of China to be toppled! That is not peaceful.

And they speak prevaricatively in Q&A session. If it's tedious to explain, they'd refer you to their website and books.

The Tanzania issue did not happened. Felon Gooners are well-known for its denial. They conveniently say Tanzania government lied in order to placate Beijing, ICs are forged, self-immolaters are not their members even though family member, relatives or friends have come out to acknowledge them. That's where they lost credibility. That is why Epoch Times is not and will not become a mainstream media because of its dishonesty.

I did not say a country with felon gooners will have its economy collapsed. I say if a country embrace, meaning if ALL the people in a country are felon gooners, then the people becomes unproductive and would result in ailing and failing economy.

It is true felon gooners in Malaysia holds active jobs and contributes to the economy. But having jobs does not mean they are productive and thus contributes to economy. It also doesn't mean they are still efficient in their jobs. Their hearts are elsewhere. Their priorities are elsewhere. They are unproductive when they spends MOST of their time, other than their jobs, on activities that doesn't contributes much to the economy. For example, listening for hours to talks and over practicing their twisted form of exercise. But that is their freedom, their rights. They can listen whole day long and exercise 24 hours a day. But it does not deny the fact that such actions and activities are unproductive.

Your apprehension of communism is irrelevant to the discussion. Felon Goon has to be banned based on the summarized reasons I have given.

lovebuzz

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 8-11-2006 09:48 AM
Wrong. Rules are not there to target a particular group. Rules and laws are there to ensure each person's rights are protected. It is meant to address peoples who VIOLATES the rules or laws NOT BEC ...

no we do not have our OWN different rights. it is the same right we all share, mandated under the federal constitution, which is the freedom of religion. there is no such thing as non-falungong rights or falungong rights. this is a very divisive concept you had came up with to accuse them of pursuing some sort of special 'privileges' and in turn infringing your rights, when in fact we are equal citizens protected under malaysian law. i do not merely speak for FLG rights, im speaking for human rights.

and stop twisting my words to make it seem that the ccp have a respectable religious freedom record. in 1992, the ccp was still maintaining a strict ban over other religions but allowed for falungong to flourish because it was part of the qigong and taichi exercise association that had rallied the morale and identity of the chinese people during drastic economic reform and mass industrialization.

if they were creating national disharmony or had counter-revolutionary tendencies like you said, then they would have been nipped in the bud, not given 7 years to grow. also in the 7 years, millions of people came to practise falungong, did the economy of china collapse?  

if you equate falungong to sectarian rebellions then name me the hierarchy of the rebels, the leaders, public statement of intent and analysis of the damage caused by the rebels in malaysia. can you? why because this is all wash, a public enemy concocted by the communists to maintain their power and spread unnecessary panic. we on the other hand had history to remind us that the only rebels encountered are not falungong but communist guerillas. and who joined indoenesia in the confrontation against the formation of malaysia. it was the ccp.

you have no doubts about the self-immolation and torture cases but many do and continue to scrutinize the sources coming out of china. there are also incidents whereby relatives have to collect the famined and bruised bodies of family members from prison and told that they had starved themselves to death and were not allowed to ask further. so what justification do you have to say that the police did not resort to violent conduct? especially when human rights organizations are barred from investigating into these matters, is not your communist regime in a state of denial?
   
falun gong practitioners have been accused of alot of things, including teachings of self-immolation, self-starvation, intention to harm society and intention to overthrow the government but if their scriptures, speeches and most importantly their actions do not reflect such things, don't they too have the right to defend themselves?   

one dont have to be a mainstream media to be honest. truthfullness is a standard all forms of media must adhere to. epoch times is an alternative media reporting on news that china is too afraid to handle. if anything it offers a platform for those who are persecuted in china to voice out and allow for readers to know what is going on there. if you dont like epoch times, then dont read it, just dont deprieve others of the benefit.  

falungong practitioners have no intention of toppling the government of china. the communist government will crumble by itself. any government rife with corruption and inciting hatred against its own people will face its due. gandhi brought down the british colonials not by fighting against them but by enduring against them. this is the sort of peaceful reformation the chinese people seek.     

my understanding of communism has everything to do with this discussion. the history of falun gong is intertwined with that of china and the ban which you called for in is nothing more than a cunning extension of communist policies in malaysia that will lead to social unrest instead.

and may i ask what is a felon gooner? if by felon gooner, you mean somebody like yourself who spend 24 hours a day in message boards doing nothing productive but spreading mass hysteria and irresponsible lies against an already oppressed minority group, then yes i agree with you that our economy would one day definately collapse. you win, no contest.

That's right. We do not have our own DIFFERENT rights. We all share the SAME equal rights. Each of us, in our OWN freedom have the same right to pursue our self interests equally. But we have no right to exercise our rights unreservedly to the extent it affect another person's right negatively. No mistake here. This is universal.

Felon Goons have their rights to share. Ordinary people have theirs to reject. Both are equal and the same. To each his own. But felon goons have no greater right to jeopardise ordinary people's right to safety by calling for the toppling of the government in order to lift the barriers to their unrestraining freedom. And felon goons have no right to lie and mislead the public by keeping the problem of malpractises to themselves without letting other people know. Ordinary citizens have the right to know the truth.

I agree you speak for human rights. So am I. But you are speaking about UNCONDITIONAL human rights where one does not need to bother another person's well-being. I speak about CONDITIONAL human rights where each person's rights are to be respected and no one's right should be limited or violated by another inconsiderate or irresponsible person in exercising his or her rights.

I did not twist your words. I don't do such thing. It is you who twist and turn. Your initial argument of government 'blessings' before 1999 because felon goon had not outgrew the ccp was debunked by me to be invalid. Now you've shift the goal post to mean it was part of some harmless associations. Funnily, this argument speak on my behalf where the felon goons WERE PEACEFUL. Therefore, they were 'blessed'. Thanks for that one.

I said, they were supported before 1999 shows that the government allows religious freedom. And they were outlawed in 1999 because they became UNpeaceful.

It is true millions of people had joined Felon Goon in China. But what is a few millions compared to 1.3 billion majority? Even if we take the exaggerated 100 million followers purported by the big headed felon goons, they are still insignificant. The economy is still supported BY the majority. In Malaysia, felon goons numbered a few hundreds. They are not significant enough to be able to affect Malaysian economy. They will when their numbers grow sufficiently large.

The felon goons called for the government to be brought down. That's rebellious. I hear it from their speeches and I am told by its members in this country. If an Islamic group in this country has link with Al Qaeda, it will have to be banned. Similarly, the felon goons in Malaysia has link with the devious felon goons of China. Therefore, it should be banned before it grows larger and cause menace to our people.

Felon Goon should be banned based on the reasons of their aggressive nature. It is amusing to debate why it should not be banned based on what the communist had done. Utterly hilarious.

Why should I justify the action of Chinese police? Does it exonerate the fact of how aggressive and malicious the felon goons had reacted all the while? What has the CCP's so-called denial has to do with felon goons' violent nature? Does it mitigate the fact people died in the neighbourhood due to occultism? I don't see its relevance.

They have the right to defend themselves but they have no right to lie for themselves.

Yes, it is not necessary to be a mainstream media to be honest. I did not say it should. Epoch Times need not be a mainstream media to qualify as being credible or not. Epoch Times can be honest without being a mainstream media. But Epoch Times can also be dishonest without being a mainstream media. It's the readers' wide acceptance or rejection that make a media a mainstream or not. Until today, Epoch Times is still not a mainstream media. In other words, it is not popular. Why is it not popular? I leave it to you.

The idea that the government of China will crumble by itself is your personal opinion. It has no relevance to the debate where felon goons called for toppling of the government of China. And if you believe in peaceful reformation, then you are on my side for I have always advocated peaceful transitions instead of aggressive and reckless acts.

And I don't spend 24 hours a day in message boards. I believe I am like you, spending a pittance of our time to challenge our ideas and understandings about an issue.

RedChaSiew

That's right. We do not have our own DIFFERENT rights. We all share the SAME equal rights. Each of us, in our OWN freedom have the same right to pursue our self interests equally. But we have no right to exercise our rights unreservedly to the extent it affect another person's right negatively. No mistake here. This is universal.

you're refering to bolih-land?? or is that just universal LOL