Music.. for sale or not?

azmee

"The one who suffered the most from the current practice is the artist itself."
    I think you are straying from the topic that you started that is music should be free    and  as far as the artists are concerned you are no longer talking about  creative work, but the more on the person who deliver the creative work.. What goes between the singer and the label is up to the terms and conditions agreed between them.. every single contract signed by the singer the label is different from one label to another, you can't make a generalisation that 'the artist itself sufferes because of labels'. As far as the composers and lyricists are concerned, they are paid mech royalties by the labels to their publishers and as long as there is demand, the album can sell and of course the labels will have to pay royalties to the contributors of the creative work.

"Let the listeners try listening completely to your stuff, then if they want to keep it forever... ask them to buy. As simple as that" - aiyoooh encik... where have you been? Have you ever been to a music store before? Do you know that before you buy a CD, you CAN ask to listen to the all the songs in the CDs before buying? Of course in some cases, they have CD samplers and people are allowed to listen to 1 or 2 songs and it's just one of the ways to promote a particular album. Albums cost $$$,   In most cases, the artistes themselves DO NOT use their own money to pay for the recordings.. It is the recording labels who fork out the dough and expect to recover their investments. Look..if you're confused.. just ask yourself this.. where does the money come from, and where must it flow back to?

"Do you know how much does it takes for an album to debut to #1 in Billboard Top 200 albums chart right now? All it takes is 65k of sales!" - read the last line of the last paragraph. And by the way, typically an album in the states can cost up to half a million US dollars to make and record labels will do anything to stop people from pirating such as investing in various technologies likes DRM etc. But bear in mind , these copy protection thingies do not kill the industry.. They only stop first generation copies.. People can still pirate the songs using analogue ways.. You can just connect an RCA cable of the cd player's output to a soundcard, press 'record' and bingo, you have a 2nd generation copy which u can encode into mp3 and distribute. You can NEVER find any sort of technology that can stop piracy.. the only REAL way to tackle this problem is to tackle the source of the problem, not the supply.. and that is to educate people that illegal downloads are just plain wrong.

When you say that  a 30 second lowbitrate clip 'destroys' the industry, of course you would say it limits listeners rights to listen BECAUSE you want to listen to a full version for FREE!. That's not why that clip was intended to do. It was intended to be a sample for the whole song. The only industry that a '30 sec lowbitrate clip' might potentially upset is the pirate industry!


Back to the main point, the greatest murderers are people who distribute music illegally and who thinks music should be free. I think you should have a little respect for composers and lyricists and the musicians bro..

[ Last edited by  azmee at 13-2-2007 02:01 AM ]

mohariz

Back to the main point, the greatest murderers are people whodistribute music illegally and who thinks music should be free. I thinkyou should have a little respect for musicians bro....( i like this line)

Thanks azmee...Awaklah orang yg faham penat lelah orang muzik industri....Bayangkan kalau awak semua duduk di tempat saya? Boleh tak i nak free lagu u? What do u think?

[ Last edited by  mohariz at 13-2-2007 02:01 AM ]

mohariz

Originally posted by Muntz at 21-1-2007 04:50 PM
Bagi aku, ia sepatutnya for free... tapi tak dibenarkan utk re-distribute, and for profiteering purposes. Music should be available to all...

Ok laa macam ni.. Kalau lagu atau sesebuah ciptaan lagu atau lirik yang berusia lebih 50 tahun.. macam lagu lagu Mozart,Beethovan atau lagu lagu lain yg dah kira purba..Ia dah jadi Copyright free.. Public Domain..Tapi tetap cd nya kena bayar... Pasal Musician yg main lagu itu mahukan royalty.

Rasanya kalau National Anthem  memang patutnya free dan tidak dibenarkan redistribute atau profiteeing purposes.. Betul tak?

azmee

Aku rasa..kalau ada sesaper yang nak dengar lagu beethoven free, dia kena main la lagu tu sendiri

[ Last edited by  azmee at 13-2-2007 02:19 AM ]

Muntz

Actually aku pun membayar gak utk download certain songs.. especially the rare one.

Aper pon pendapat korang, I think it should be free. Katakan takder bisnes dalam penjualan CD, dan semua lagu boleh dapat for free... korang rasa apa yg akan buat seseorg tu bayar pada artis yg beri lagu free tu? Tentu show dia akan tambah laris, ads di sana sini, dan banyak lagi saluran lain utk dapat duit... i think that one works better. Bila artis tu kata nak buat show, tapi takder org show up, tandanya dia takder peminat lar tu.

mohariz

Sorry laa Muntz  saya bukan nak marah awak. Ni pendapat awak saja.. saya rasa soalan awak ni tak logic laa..Baik awak tutup jer thread ni.. Sebab benda ni tak mungkin terjadi..Percaya la...Kalau terjadi pun awak sorang jer yg buat.... Jangan kecik hati ye..sorry laa...

[ Last edited by  mohariz at 14-2-2007 04:03 AM ]

redrumdoll

regarding what muntz said,
if u want people to taste the kuih, would u give the whole loyang of kuih to one possible customer??
u complained about the lil bitrate. it's the same thing with the kuih, u won't give the whole loyang just for a customer for the experiment, right??? if they like the kuih, they'll buy to satisfy the hunger.
it's the same thing with songs, u just only have to hear a part of it to decide whether its good or not but in order to get the whole feeling, u have to buy the album, for instance.

i am definitely not talking crap here.
there's so much free music, we listened to the radio for free, we downloaded from the internet for free(ahahah).
haven't u had enough of it, muntz??

Muntz

Ini sekadar mengumpul pendapat... sbb kat US sana banyak cerita pasal free music download nie. Ader sesetengah artis (especially underground) memberi fans mereka download secara percuma karya muzik mereka. Mereka tak lokek pun. Itu lah yg ingin saya cuba tanya di sini.... nampaknya orang kita masih lagi terlena dengan commercialism of music. That's what I see...

Muntz

Actually saya dah letakkan satu link artikel dari Courtney Love sebelum ini. Bukan dia sorang saja, malah ramai artis lain yg menyokong pemberian muzik secara percuma dan penjualan hanya utk in-demand basis. Pemikiran kita mgkin masih lagi terkongkong dalam skop yang muzik mesti dijual utk mendapatkan untung dan modal balik bagi kos berbagai2. Perlu kita ingat, ramai yg menghasilkan muzik di dunia ini bukan untuk dijual, tapi utk kepuasan diri. Mereka lebih puas bila ramai peminat mereka menghargai muzik mereka daripada membeli muzik mereka tetapi tiada "chemistry" antara mereka dgn peminat mereka.

Just something to ponder here. I'm glad that some of you responded very well. The way we perceive commercialism of music is different, but thanks to y'all... we've made this discussion in very informative and collective way.

mohariz

Originally posted by Muntz at 22-2-2007 12:10 AM
Actually saya dah letakkan satu link artikel dari Courtney Love sebelum ini. Bukan dia sorang saja, malah ramai artis lain yg menyokong pemberian muzik secara percuma dan penjualan hanya utk in-d ...

Kalau dah kaya banyak duit boleh laa bagi free...Mcm Tan Sri Azman Hashim... Buat album suka suka....Mcm underground pun sama gak nak cari nama..atau saja suka

Muntz

Actually the so-called "music business' is confined to profiteering or manipulating artists' talents or persona to massively sell music. Some of them might be sincere in delivering their music, but I doubt some of them just doing it for the sake of glam. But nowadays, in the western countries, people tend to talk about music whole-heartedly, which I saw as part of proof that they themselves are true artist. They really want the audience to know that they really do music sincerely by composing their own, or making music of their own. To me, they are still posers who try to talk like they are true musician... which in fact, they are also like any other commercialized artists who try to sell big.

Many Malaysians still believe music is purely for commercialization... for massive trade. That's why my idea of giving music for free is not acceptable. In Western countries, there are already many artists who r dedicated to create music, but they never intend to sell it for mass. They let people download it freely, keep it as long as they want and distribute to whoever they want. Their fans usually demand for show or hard copy of their album, and from there, they can earn bucks. To me, the way artists obligate really reflect the impression and support they will get. It's pure support and un-manipulative.

Muntz

Baru saya sedar... patutlah encik mohariz macam defend betul2 org yg jual muzik nie, sbb encik mohariz sendiri ialah composer. Good to know u encik mohariz.

mohariz

Komposer tak berapa glemer...

Muntz

Tak semestinya kita glamer dalam bidang muzik nie. Yg penting, hasil karya kita tu kreatif dan bermutu. Contohnya Linda Perry.. waktu dia jadi artis rock dulu sapa jer yg kenal dia? Tapi bila dia dah jadi composer dan producer utk album2 Avril Lavigne, Pink, Kelly Clarkson, dia jadi ngetop kerana hasil karya dia yg berkualiti dan bermutu.

mohariz

Terima Kasih kera bagi semangat..TQ