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View: 5651|Reply: 28
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Poland using Euro 1 per MIG & buy all these ex-German MIGs
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build for war... MiG memang war machine... body x smooth langsung... murah kalau nak beli tapi parah kalau nak upgrade...  |
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Reply #3 venez's post
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yah MIG is not smoonth....if all these not german 2nd product but is from MIG production storage.... tat will be "lagi" good |
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Originally posted by gancity at 13-11-2006 21:18
yah MIG is not smoonth....if all these not german 2nd product but is from MIG production storage.... tat will be "lagi" good
tapi kalau malaysia beli MiG nih, confirm jadi cam 88 bijik skyhawk yang kita beli dulu... tersadai jerk...
nak beli tapi perancangan jangka panjang xder..... |
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mak datuk asap... still takde solution ke utk asap banyak nih |
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Reply #6 kapakterbang's post
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RD-33 Ver 3 solve the smoking problem & i thk Poland 1 is the RD-33 Ver 1...TUDM is Ver 2 |
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I think that we are approaching this problem from the wrong angle. What distinguishes a war winning airforce from its competitor is not just technological advantage, which many times can be fleeting, or the number of aircraft which the airforce operates, but its training and flexibility, ie ability to take the initiative despite initial defeats.
Weapons are critical, training is even more important, but logistics is EVERYTHING. That is what we should be looking at.
Along with basic things:
1) What are the MiG-29's sortie rates? SORTIES WIN WARS !!! How many missions can it fly in a 24 hour period?
2) What is its endurance with a full payload? How many hours can it fly? How is its performance with different payloads?
3) What is the maintenance situation for these MiG-29's? If a vital spare-part is ordered how quickly can the supplier respond? Within 24 hours? 48 hours? 1 week? If a technician is required, how quickly can one be flown out? What is the time period between major overhauls? How long can the engines be used before they have to be replaced? What is the airframe life? Can an adequate supply of spare-parts be established?
To buy a fighter aircraft is easy. Even poor countries like Myanmar/N. Korea have MiG-29's. The problem is keeping them well maintained and with a large number of well trained fighter pilots. This is infinitely more difficult, but will be the factor between victory and defeat for the RMAF.
[ Last edited by johngage at 14-11-2006 07:47 AM ] |
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Wah....a positive initiatives by the Polish..
Hm...a clearer pictures of how the Fulcrums handled n operated. Thanks bro..:jeling: |
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i've said this again and again.. unless they can come out with a -29 with a longer endurance,better payload and a lot less smoke from the engines,best thing is to stay away from the -29..
its a point defense fighter.. enuff said. |
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Reply #2 gancity's post
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Gancity, the ONE EURO per aircraft is just a symbolic gesture. It is actually a gift from the German govt to Poland govt as what the South Korea's did to their F-5 by selling it ONE US Dollar to I think either Brazil or South Africa. They - the German military found that the MIG's are costly to maintain and upgrade as it was from their East Germany military inventory before the German unification in 1989. They operate a different type of aircraft from their ex-Warsaw pact sibling. It's a part of a deal when Poland agrees to buy German Leopard tanks. |
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A fleet of fighters is sold for a euro - BBC
A fleet of fighters is sold for a euro
MiG29 is thought to be one of the best modern fighters
by BBC News Online's Alexander Koliandre
Polish air forces have got a real bargain - they have purchased 23 Soviet-made light tactical fighters MiG29 Fulcrum for just one euro.
A new Fulcrum costs around $25m and is considered to be one of the best modern fighters.
Warsaw got them, as Polish Defence Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski put it, for "a notorious euro".
Under the current law, Poland was obliged to pay for the planes, albeit a symbolic price.
Soviet legacy
Two years ago Germany proposed that Poland should get the planes along with 120 second-hand Leopard tanks as a goodwill gesture to help the Polish army meet Nato technical standards.
Under the deal, Warsaw will get the fighters which were inherited from East Germany after unification.
In the early 1990s those MiGs were considered by Germany's airforce Luftwaffe as the only German Democratic Republic fighters worth upgrading.
Millions to come
Although the purchase can hardly be considered as an expensive one, it may bring some badly needed cash to the military industries in Poland and Russia.
When Poland joined Nato, its army needed to catch up with the alliance's technical standards.
The bulk of Polish military equipment was inherited from the times of the Warsaw Pact and the cost of upgrading it all totals hundreds of millions of dollars.
Only 11 planes of Germany's 23, meet all the Nato requirements. The rest needs to be upgraded, mainly by installing new radars and other electronic equipment.
Analysts in both Moscow and in Warsaw say the cost of upgrading exceeds $20m. But it is unclear who will get the contract.
Polish option
According to Gazeta Wyborcza, a Polish daily newspaper, the most probable candidate for the contract is a military aircraft plant, based in Bydgoszcz in Northern Poland.
It is the country's only plant able to do the job, and it has already updated Poland's MiG29s and Su22 bombers.
Jan Zuk, the plant's head, sounded quite upbeat when asked about the future of the contract.
Warsaw is thought to be keen to give the contract to a local company, but largely improved relationships with Russia might help Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG to get the job.
Russia's bonanza
While Moscow was rather unhappy to see the former allies flocking to Nato, the transition was a source of hard currency in the mid-nineties for Russia's military industry.
Last year MiG Corporation signed a deal worth $40m with Hungary for upgrading its jets and is considered to be the favourite in a similar Bulgarian tender.
If the upgrade goes ahead, Poland's MiG's might be the last East European ones.
The plane is praised by pilots for its resilience and good flying qualities, but its radars and some electronic equipment are thought to be less sophisticated than Western ones.
The price of commitment
Warsaw got its first 12 MiG29s during the last years of the Soviet Union and bought another 10 in the Czech Republic in 1995.
The upgraded MiGs are thought to be in service in Poland until 2015.
Luftwaffe was going to get rid of the planes anyway and offering them to Poland has helped the country to cope with its commitments.
Poland committed itself to having 160 modern fighters when it joined Nato in 1999.
It is obliged to have 16 new multipurpose fighters ready for Nato operations by 2003, and 60 by 2006.
Due to a permanent budget shortage, Warsaw was forced to delay an aircraft tender that drew interest from Lockheed Martin, a British-Swedish consortium of BAE Systems and Saab, and France's Dassault.
The result of the tender - worth around $3bn - is expected in mid-August.
Meanwhile the MiG Corporation offered to export the new MiG29M2, thought to be rather attractive for potential buyers considering its low price and overall good quality.
Thursday, 31 January, 2002, 16:25 GMT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1794284.stm |
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Definitely a good buy but offered to NATO buddy only. You won't get it even if you pay 1 million Euros for each plane.
As we can see, the upgrading don't cost very much compared to buying new planes. But the hidden cost of an old airframe may be problematic. It may restrict an engine change.
I'm interested to know what actual upgrades they will do to to live up to current and future NATO standards. |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 14-11-2006 13:16
Definitely a good buy but offered to NATO buddy only. You won't get it even if you pay 1 million Euros for each plane.
As we can see, the upgrading don't cost very much compared to buying new pla ...
upgrade? i think their go for MiG-29 SMT project with sukhoi avionic... |
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gilerr ahhh..murah dohh..xterbayang dek minda..kalu terhempas pun ape salahnye..xrugi pun..heheh |
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Originally posted by gancity at 13-11-2006 09:08 PM
Poland using Euro 1 per MIG & buy all these ex-German MIGs (1)
http://img81. ...
aku tengok macam bengkel kereta jer... |
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Ada lagi ke? Kawan nak beli boleh tak???? |
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aku nak beli. nak parking depan rumah. |
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Since Msia is putting Mig29 in storage anyway, why not sell it to Singapore? We can upgrade also. |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 15-11-2006 05:51 PM
Since Msia is putting Mig29 in storage anyway, why not sell it to Singapore? We can upgrade also.
I don't think RSAF would want to have a new aircraft type. We also do not have the experience to upgrade aircraft of Russian origins. But it will be good to see a Mig-29 on display in our airforce muesuem though.Personally i feel that Russian aircraft looks better than US ones. |
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Post time 13-11-2006 09:08 PM
变色卡
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