Senjata Api : Self-Defense ?

windof

US lain.... mmg asalnya koboi...tembak menembak utk so called self defence mmg lumrah, hasilnya beratus2 atau beribu2 yg jadi mangsa senjata api setiap tahun... pas tuh kat US undang2 self defence menghalalkan pembunuhan, atas nama self defence...kalau kat malaysia, mau kena reman 7 hari...pas tuh kena charge membunuh tanpa niat atau dengan sengaja...last2 kena jel jugak... mob lynch penyangak yg mmg sangak sampai mampus pon kena reman..hang kena pikiq beb...US lain...malaysia lain... hang seronok main tembak2, hang dok la sana selama mungkin, bila hang dah boring main tembak2 nanti, hang balik la malaysia... hang punya AR 15 tuh tak leh bawak masyuk...nanti hang kena ISA...
beratus2 kes rakyat US mempertahankan diri ngan senjata api tak berbaloi ngan beratus2 kes serangan ke atas bebudak sekolah setiap tahun di sana... US ni kena contohi malaysia dlm hal ni...haramkan rakyatnya dari memiliki senjata api... kalau nak pakai senjata air, angin dan tanah takpa...

alphawolf

Tu pasal depa punya Second Amendment ler....'right to bear arms'

mdmee

IMO ... pump gun macam mossberg 500 atau remington 870 dengan pistol grip adalah yang paling bagus untuk defence rumah.
Tak perlu aim tepat sangat ...
Nak lagi compact .. beli yang versi super shorty !!! yang ini kat US pun ada tempat tak dibenarkan !!!

Anyway .. apa law kat Malaysia kalau tembak pencuri dalam rumah ?
Aku rasa kalau tembak dalam rumah tak salah .. tapi kalau diluar kawasan rumah merupakan satu kesalahan (contoh kejar pencuri kemudian tembak luar kawasan rumah)

windof

kena amend balik 2nd amendment tuh...

benzo

Mana kau dapat statistik beratus-ratus budak mati kat sekolah setiap tahun? 2008 tak de pun mass killing kat sekolah, ada single murders but total is less than ten. Don't just pull out numbers from your ass, do some research. Don't worry about me coming back to Malaysia. Home is here in the US and that's where my loyalty lies.

2nd Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms. It's more than just for home defence though, it also guarantees that the people have the ability to resist tyranny, either foreign or domestic.

Guns do not equal violence. Switzerland ada lebih weapons per capita. Setiap lelaki Swiss akan dapat a real assault weapon SIG550, untuk mempertahankan negara apabila umur menjejak 18. Rifle ini akan disimpan dirumah. Kat sana tidak janggal melihat belia membawa rifle sambill berbasikal kerumah. Tapi tak ada shooting kat sana. Dekat US memang lebih violence tapi kebanyakannya location dependent. Kalau tak pergi kawasan urban, jarang ada any crime.

As for using an AR for home defence, you should always use the weapon you are most comfortable with. I compete in 3 gun matches and the AR under the bed is the one that I compete with. Loaded with Hornady TAP, it's an excellent round for home defence. Over penetration through sheetwall is less than 9mm while fragmentation of the round causes massive injuries. It's darn accurate too. At 100 yds, three shots will produce three holes that you can cover with a quarter. Besides, no one ever loses a firefight because he's has too much firepower.

Kalau Malaysia ada right to bear arms, jarang akan ada kes pecah rumah, Mat Rempit pun tak berani nak cari gaduh dengan sesiapa. Guns are the great equalizer.

Periuk_api1209

Originally posted by benzo at 11-5-2009 22:58
Mana kau dapat statistik beratus-ratus budak mati kat sekolah setiap tahun? 2008 tak de pun mass killing kat sekolah, ada single murders but total is less than ten. Don't just pull out numbers fr ...

huhuhu...lu dah jadi US citizen la ni...huhuhuh..

kalau rajin letak ler gambar AR ko tu.....kitorang kat sini boleh berangan jer la....

hehehehehehe

mmc

huh..your arguments defeats your arguments..ko sedar pun environment berbeza..swiss NG mestilah tau cara2 nak guna senjata because they are trained. NRA junkies macam ko pun trained but it is the saturday night specials yang kills people, itu pun dalam society yang memang dari dulu have the right to bear arms so mentaliti memang dah tuned dan berbeza dengan masyarakat kat sini...

guns are the great equaliser here can mean i have a gun, you have a gun, let's go high noon...same like demokrasi, USA dah ada beratus tahun pengalaman lynch mob, gunfights to come to where you are now, but still you have gunning down incident sampai SWAT teams are a necessity and not a special forces team anymore..so a gun is a great equaliser still does not mean your gun society is perfect still..its just a NRA junkies dream..

mmc

btw your arguments sounds familiar...memang berbau NRA 2nd Amendment junkie punya party line kan

Arbitrary Comparisons Between Countries The U.S. has a high gun murder rate, whereas a country like England with strict gun controls has almost no gun murders and a very low murder rate. Doesn't this show that gun control is effective in reducing murder rates? Not exactly. Prior to having any gun controls, England already had a homicide rate much lower than the United States (Guns, Murders, and the Constitution: A Realistic Assessment of Gun Control, Don B. Kates Jr.). Japan is another country typically cited (see Japanese Gun Control, by David B. Kopel). (Briefly discussing the difference in homicide rates between England and the U.S. is Clayton Cramer's, Variations in California Murder Rates: Does Gun Availability Cause High Murder Rates?) Gun control opponents can play similar games. The Swiss with 7 million people have hundreds of thousands of fully-automatic rifles in their homes (see GunCite's "Swiss Gun Laws") and the Israelis, until recently, have had easy access to guns (brief summary of Israeli firearms regulations here). Both countries have low homicide rates. Likewise this doesn't mean more guns less crime. The U.S. has a higher non-gun murder rate than many European country's total murder rates. On the other hand, Taiwan, the Philippines, and Mexico have non-gun murder rates in excess of our total murder rate. Incidentally in 13th century Europe, several studies have estimated homicide rates in major cities to be around 60 per 100,000. (Even back then, the equivalent of coroners, kept records.) There are many, many factors, some much more prominent than gun availability that influence homicide rates and crime in general. (See this excerpt from 1997 FBI Uniform Crime Report and GunCite's "Is Gun Ownership Correlated with Violent Deaths?") Due to the many confounding factors that arise when attempting international comparisons, this approach would appear to hold little promise for determining the influence of gun levels (or handgun availability) on violence rates.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

tin

I foresee muchi will experience more gorilla attacks

alphawolf

Ha'ah lepas tu timbul le kes drive-by shooting mat rempit tadi tu....great equalizer eh?

windof

hahaha...mana pulok kau tau beratus orang selamat ngan gun kat sana? ass2 tak main la, lu gay ka? hahaha... eh budak...lu mau main repal lu sambil jadi amerikano tak yah la nak suruh bangsa lu kat sini ikut sama mental macam depa kat sana... kalau tak beratus pon jadi mangsa, mmg saban tahun ada jer berita mass shooting kat sana... hang rasa bagus ker tu? kalau tak kat sekolah, kat U, kat pejabat, kat tempat kerja...lu sendiri kira la...

benzo

Originally posted by windof at 12-5-2009 17:00
hahaha...mana pulok kau tau beratus orang selamat ngan gun kat sana? ass2 tak main la, lu gay ka? hahaha... eh budak...lu mau main repal lu sambil jadi amerikano tak yah la nak suruh bangsa lu ka ...

budak? aku rasa aku lagi tua dari kau. "Pulling something out of your ass" means making up something, not your sexual orientation, of course with the level of Malay that you are writing I can't expect you to comprehend English. Don't make insults online that you wouldn't dare to make face to face.

Just because you read in the news about school shootings once in a blue moon, does not mean that it's a common occurance here. Just by browsing NST and Star I found these:

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/9/2/nation/18763372&sec=nation
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/3/2/nation/17022191&sec=nation
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/3/1/nation/17014089&sec=nation
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/1/11/nation/20080111182943&sec=nation
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Sunday/National/2148873/Article/index_html
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/2/4/nation/16782114&sec=nation

If I were basing an opinion on Malaysia based on those, I would think that there's bullets flying everywhere there. I know that's not the case and neither is there a bloodbath in US schools.

Back to facts:
Firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives.
In 83.5% (2,087,500) of these successful gun defenses, the attacker either threatened or used force first, proving that guns are very well suited for self-defense.
Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers.
Less than 8% of the time does a citizen wound his or her attacker, and in less than one in a thousand instances is the attacker killed.113
For every accidental death, suicide, or homicide with a firearm, 10 lives are saved through defensive use.
When using guns in self-defense:
• 83% of robbery victims were not injured.
• 88% of assault victims were not hurt.
• 76% of all self-defense use of guns never involve firing a single shot.

Sources: FBI, “Critical Incidents in Policing”, 1991, National Crime Victimization Survey, 1979-1985

Top ten countries (homicides):
Colombia
Jamaica
Russia
Mexico
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Belarus
Papua New Guinea
Kyrgyzstan

The US is not in the list and most of these countries have strict gun laws.
Source: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention, Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 – 2000.

Conclusion of this study: "Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide rates. "
Source: “Violence, Guns and Drugs: A Cross-Country Analysis”, Jeffery A. Miron, Department of Economics, Boston University.

You can google up these references. Saturday night specials are cheap guns like Jennings, Lorcins etc. I wouldn't own one but there is a need for them. Self defence should not be the privilege of the rich.

benzo

In addition, muslims are supposed to be prepared for defence, whether for religion, country or self:

   1. Sabda baginda : "Ajarlah anak-anak kamu berenang, memanah dan menunggang kuda."
   2. Rasulullah SAW bersabda : "Lemparkanlah (panah) dan tungganilah (kuda)." (Riwayat Muslim)
   3. "Kamu harus belajar memanah kerana memanah termasuk sebaik-baik permainanmu." (Riwayat Bazzar dan Thabrani)

Memanah sekarang would not have the same effect as back then, hence firearms training. Malaysian army sekarang ada 120-150k orang? Singapore has 500k reservists. Wouldn't the odds be much better if even 10% of the population had arms. Then it would be 500k vs 2 million.

I'm not advocating for Malaysia to allow ar15s to be sold at the pasar malam. That would be a leap too far. If just 22lr bolt action rifles can be bought by anyone without a criminal record, that would allow Malaysians to defend their homes and build skills that would be transferable to better weapons. A 22 is not much but it still better than a stick.

Firearms laws has kept arms out the hands of the law-abiding in Malaysia but as the links above show, criminals don't worry about gun laws. When guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns.

Lastly, if Americans, Swiss, Finns, Canadians etc can be trusted to own weapons without massacring each other, why would Malaysians be any different? Don't tell me you don't trust your own countryman and yourselves to be responsible. What next? banning parangs and any sharp pointy objects?

mmc

aahhh .22s..that would be interesting for everybody to own..deadly still but only makes a small hole if you can aim right..but don't you think that there would not be a natural progression whereby people will start clamouring for AR15s, so what do you do then..

anyway apologies for the poremers poor english..yalah ini malaysia, bukan negara barat nak asah cakap orang puteh tiap2 hari..

mmc

i am a bit surprised why you did not include mexico, brazil or other latina countries that have easy access to firearms in your list, or maybe even african countries, maybe south africa itself..your thoughts?

windof

huhuhu.... soli por me poor malglish....kuden under the stand on the line one...ok pokcik mesingun... let see how you gonna use your gun to uphold Islam and glorify it again in the eyes of the world....
anyway all the best to you...may your quest to uphold Islam again with the knowledge that you seek in the amerikano land will bear fruit in the near future since you are old oready...hope there'll be enuff time for you to achieve it...

HangPC2

Simpan Pedang atau Parang kat Rumah lah....

matdue77

Aik? Dah gaduh ke?

TUjuan utama aku wat thread ni mmg untuk tukar2 fikiran... tentang apa yang berlaku sekarang...

Kat rumah skang ni nak tinggal mak ayah adik beradik especially pompuan dah tak berapa berani sebab org jahat dah terlampau berani/jahat.... Even nak allow adik pompuan balik dari tuition atau public library pun dah tak berani...

alphawolf

Sebab ada gun nut dalam nih....

To Mr benzo americano
Do you really need a gun for self-defence? What about non-lethal weapons? Or even melee weapons?

matdue77

So kawan, tentang hal senjata api mmg dah tak boleh kite nak guna, apa senjata yang boleh kita bawak bersama diri kita secara legal?

Maknanya yang kalau polis tahan kita, diorang mintak kita tunjukkan dan diorang takkan tahan kita...