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Its easy
DavidW Post at 7-2-2011 14:16 
ahh the HARDquestion is if JESUS = GOD, why did he cry out MY LORD MY LORD WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME during crucifixion. you know the meaning of EQUAL right? 2 = 2 right? can 2 = 3? hence JESUS = GOD gonna mean GOD THE FATHER calling out to HIMSELF - MY LORD MY LORD WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME. right? hence my HARDquestion.
over to you dude  |
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Is Allah not almighty?
DavidW Post at 7-2-2011 14:21
huh? where's the word IMPOTENT? that's our favourite word you know. and i tend to say - dont slink out with your tail between you legs. subsequently you responded with hysterical laughter HAHAHAHAHAHA . .
anyhow let's take a break
To market, to market, to buy a fat pig.
Home again, home again, jiggerty jig.
To market, to market, to buy a fat hog,
Home again, home again, jiggerty jog. |
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in simpler term 2 = 2, it's never ever ever ever gonna be 2 = 3 or 4 etc. likewise when jesus = god, you can expect god the father gonna have everything that a man have - lust, hunger, fear etc. see? trinitarians and binitarians wanna limit god's power. that's tantamount to ridiculing almighty god and that's blasphemy.
I guess you get me or our theological explanation wrong, my beloved Unitarian Christian brother I can talk like Muslim way of speech because I dwell among them, I could think like them too. I nearly became a Muslim because of what I've got from our theological thinking although they could not easily understand our theological thinking, not only because I dwell among them.
I was given private teachings about the teachings of our lord, Jesus of Nazareth at home by my parents especially my lovely mum, not only being sent to Sunday classes at Catholic Church in our vicinity for us to learn about other rites belief and theological way of thinking although we do not differ muh, as a sign of gratitude to the parish because they helped us into baptism. We have no Church of our own here.
It is not about we limit God power nor ridiculing Him. We do know that God the Father is Omnipotent and the One who posses the Sole power in coordinating the Universe. Beyond time frame because He is the One who created the time, everlasting, and eternal in contarst to anything created.
Of course God the Father has no desire to food, intercourse, and has nothing to fear of. I could understand that well. Now, when we talk about Jesus, again, we are not talking about Jesus' physical frame. It is about his divine spirit which is the Word of God.
In easy words, human-being have two kind of bodies. So does our lord Jesus Christ, he possesed two kind of bodies. The one is that the body that you can touch and see which is your physical body made of flesh. The other one is the spiritual body which we call as spirit, soul, inner body, and etc. This spiritual body, we can't touch but we are alive because of it. This spiritual body too has few levels from highest part to the lowest part. The part of hunger, desire, and etc that you mentioned are not spiritual parts of human self. It is more to flesh desire, for physical build and reproduction of human-being. When we die, our spiritual self too will die?
Now, we return back to my theological explanation about the Word, the Word that I'm talking about is concerning Jesus' spiritual self. In Nicene Creed, we have been told that Jesus wasn't created but begotten from the same essence of God the Father. It refers to his spiritual self or his soul is from the same essence of Father. Not that what had been understood by Muslim lay person. At that time, all of the bishops who were into agreement into the formation of the Nicene Creed as a pillar of Christian belief or Christian lay persons understood that part without having to mention it in detail. I do know that Jesus physical body or frame is made and created by God the Father so it is immortal just like other human-being who are not revealed and that is why he died on the crucifix.
Now ask these Muslims' pendakwah here, do they believe in spiritual soul of Jesus ascending to the heaven or his whole self including his physical body ascended to the heaven in the event of Resurrection? Do, the Quran mentions about this in detail or they will say that let it be without discussed since they are not Christians but they have this belief in Christ? It is almost in the likeness of the discussion about the event where Muhammad ascended to the heaven during the Isra' Mi'raj which is also our public holiday in the country, no?
I know and realize that our human lord Jesus Christ is not a god nor God. I'd rather refer to his spiritual self as angelic soul. Because Muslim who doesn't check back past teachings and theological explanations will confuse it with their public thinking. I don't think that they will understand this either unless if they learn Kabbalah teachings but what I heard from Muslims, they said that Kabbalah is the teaching of satans because Jews are satans, they will crush Muslims with Dajjal (anti-Christ) and not to forget that they killed their own prophets including our lord, Jesus the Messiah of Nazareth 
This part of understanding is now concluded in Kabbalah mysticism about spirits and souls but at the day of our lord Jesus Christ, this understanding about spiritual wasn't called as Kabbalah yet but it is already being discussed by Christians and also Jews. That is why many people say that Christianity can't easily being understood by people especially Muslims (including muallaf fellow Malays) because it is a kind of mysticism about the mystery of God proved by our lord Jesus the Christ combined with God's morality teachings through His son, Jesus |
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huh? where's the word IMPOTENT? that's our favourite word you know. and i tend to say - dont ...
sonny~~ Post at 7-2-2011 14:43
Looks like you just rendered Allah impotent sonny. |
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I guess you get me or our theological explanation wrong, my beloved Unitarian Christian brother ...
Of course God the Father has no desire to food, intercourse, and has nothing to fear of. I could understand that well. Now, when we talk about Jesus, again, we are not talking about Jesus' physical frame. It is about his divine spirit which is the Word of God.
In easy words, human-being have two kind of bodies. So does our lord Jesus Christ, he possesed two kind of bodies. The one is that the body that you can touch and see which is your physical body made of flesh. The other one is the spiritual body which we call as spirit, soul, inner body, and etc.
sky_ephemeris Post at 7-2-2011 15:11
lets compare -
god the father has no desire for food etc. jesus has desire for food etc. hence jesus is not equal to god the father.
jesus has 2 kinds of bodies - physical and spiritual. god the father dont. hence they're not of equal status
on the other hand a trinitarian says jesus = god. is he lying? what is your understanding of jesus = god? |
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Looks like you just rendered Allah impotent sonny.
DavidW Post at 7-2-2011 17:18
you're heckling mr DEBMEY cum mr DAVID.
lets take a break
This little piggy went to market,
This little piggy stayed at home.
This little piggy had roast beef
And this little piggy had none.
This little piggy went wee, wee, wee,
All the way home. |
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Reply 65# DavidW
btw what's your understanding of your trinitarian comrade's statement - jesus = god? |
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Its easy
DavidW Post at 7-2-2011 14:16
soooo easy and yet wanna stay as silent as a donkey err graveyard? what's your understanding JESUS = GOD? |
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Jesus is God.
So what is your understanding that Allah is God? Is Allah god? How do you know Allah is god? |
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god the father has no desire for food etc. jesus has desire for food etc. hence jesus is not equal to god the father.
Jesus spiritual body too have desire for food, drinks, etc? Can a spirit eat food like what we eat while we are hungry?
jesus has 2 kinds of bodies - physical and spiritual. god the father dont. hence they're not of equal status
on the other hand a trinitarian says jesus = god. is he lying? what is your understanding of jesus = god?
How do you know that God possess no body? Jesus is divine just as other prophets are divine, but the different between Jesus and others is that he is the Christ, the Messiah Your stand? Whether Muhammad or Jesus is the Christ? |
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at loOOOng last, you've forced yourself to admit to yourself what you dont wanna admit that JESUS = GOD. my next earth shattering question is - to who did jesus cry out during crucifixion if he = god the father = god the holy spirit ie MY LORD MY LORD WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME?
So what is your understanding that Allah is God? Is Allah god? How do you know Allah is god?
DavidW Post at 7-2-2011 18:04
simple commonsense gonna tell you you gotta ask the muslims those questions. create the topic in the other forum and you're gonna find they're all too eager to oblige |
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Post Last Edit by sonny~~ at 7-2-2011 20:19
Jesus spiritual body too have desire for food, drinks, etc? Can a spirit eat food like what we eat while we are hungry?
dunno
How do you know that God possess no body?
dunno. do you?
Jesus is divine just as other prophets are divine, but the different between Jesus and others is that he is the Christ, the Messiah
according to dict DIVINE is as below whereas trinitarians and binitarians wanna imply jesus is god. hence when you said "other prophets are divine", that dont ring true. indeed jesus is the messiah but he's no god. mark you when you interprete MESSIAH as saviour, all prophets are saviours. moses saved jews from pharoah.
di·vine (d -v n ) adj. di·vin·er, di·vin·est 1. a. Having the nature of or being a deity.
b. Of, relating to, emanating from, or being the expression of a deity: sought divine guidance through meditation.
c. Being in the service or worship of a deity; sacred.
2. Superhuman; godlike.
3. a. Supremely good or beautiful; magnificent: a divine performance of the concerto.
b. Extremely pleasant; delightful: had a divine time at the ball.
4. Heavenly; perfect.
n. 1. A cleric.
2. A theologian.
v. di·vined, di·vin·ing, di·vines
v.tr. 1. To foretell through or as if through the art of divination.
2. a. To know by inspiration, intuition, or reflection.
b. To guess.
3. To locate (underground water or minerals) with a divining rod; douse.
v.intr. 1. To practice divination.
2. To guess.
Your stand? Whether Muhammad or Jesus is the Christ?
sky_ephemeris Post at 7-2-2011 18:12
silly question butt here goes - muhammad is muslim prophet while jesus is christ and he's no god. |
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Reply 70# DavidW
the info below is from the site you gave at the other forum.
lemme put it as such -
god the father = god the son jesus = god the holy spirit right? hence when god the son jesus cried, god the father and god the holy spirit also cried right? so when god the son jesus said FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO (luke 23:34), did god the father and god the holy spirit spoke simultaneously? one and same guy right? hence split personality right? cool.
awaiting your clarification.
God exists as three persons but is one God, meaning that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have exactly the same nature or being as God the Father in every way.[3] Whatever attributes and power God the Father has, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have as well.[3] "Thus, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinitely wise, infinitely holy, infinitely loving, omniscient."[3]
The doctrine developed from the biblical language used in New Testament passages such as the baptismal formula in Matthew 28:19 and took substantially its present form by the end of the 4th century as a result of controversies concerning the proper sense in which to apply to God and Christ terms such as "person", "nature", "essence", and "substance".[4][5][6][7] |
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4. Heavenly; perfect.
n. 1. A cleric.
2. A theologian.
v. di·vined, di·vin·ing, di·vines
v.tr. 1. To foretell through or as if through the art of divination.
2. a. To know by inspiration, intuition, or reflection.
b. To guess.
How about this meaning of divine, Sonny dear? If what has been referred as divine is about the Word (revelation and wisdom in Jesus)? The meaning of this word divine is related to the term nevi in Aramaic which was translated to English as prophet. Muslim said Jesus speaking in Hebrew although he speaks in imperial Aramaic and Hebrew at Jesus time was just the scriptural language
So do you think that we are talking different things from what you understood or you don't believe in spirits of God? You simply believe in the things that can be seen by your eyes because revelation (how it comes to be in Jesus self, whether it is by accident or by the Creator who gives it to him)? This is what I'm trying to tell you, but it is ok since you believe that Jesus is the Christ so you are still a Christian although without any attachment to Church or Catholic Christian community.
In Arabic, Mid East Christians be they Catholics or Orthodox refer to Jesus as Rabbi. Does it means that these people talk about him as a god or the God as in Arabic or religious teacher as in Hebrew? Muslim too use the word Rabbi to refer to Allah, but they don't use it to refer to Muhammad. Well, I can understand that, because God is the One who teaches human His Wisdom (Word, Revelation) although through mediums
So, you understood Jesus as the Saviour of mankind, or gentiles (nations) or just the Savior of Israel like Muslim? We the Catholic and Orthodox Christians of Saint Thomas believe that Jesus is the Christ, he will come again and Muslims too are waiting for him, are too waiting for him? |
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4. Heavenly; perfect.
n. 1. A cleric.
2. A theologian.
v. di·vined, di·vin·ing, di·vines
v.tr. 1. To foretell through or as if through the art of divination.
2. a. To know by inspiration, intuition, or reflection.
b. To guess.
How about this meaning of divine, Sonny dear? If what has been referred as divine is about the Word (revelation and wisdom in Jesus)? The meaning of this word divine is related to the term nevi in Aramaic which was translated to English as prophet. Muslim said Jesus speaking in Hebrew although he speaks in imperial Aramaic and Hebrew at Jesus time was just the scriptural language
So do you think that we are talking different things from what you understood or you don't believe in spirits of God? You simply believe in the things that can be seen by your eyes because revelation (how it comes to be in Jesus self, whether it is by accident or by the Creator who gives it to him) is something which can't be seen by physical eyes before being uttered by Jesus and written down by apostles into paper? This is what I'm trying to tell you, but it is ok since you believe that Jesus is the Christ so you are still a Christian although without any attachment to Church or Catholic Christian community, but how can you accuse us as worshiping a human together with Muslims and Jews although we talked about spiritual stuffs?
In Arabic, Mid East Christians be they Catholics or Orthodox refer to Jesus as Rabbi. Does it means that these people talk about him as a god or the God as in Arabic or religious teacher as in Hebrew? Muslim too use the word Rabbi to refer to Allah, but they don't use it to refer to Muhammad. Well, I can understand that, because God is the One who teaches human His Wisdom (Word, Revelation) although through mediums
So, you understood Jesus as the Saviour of mankind, or gentiles (nations) or just the Savior of Israel like Muslim? We the Catholic and Orthodox Christians of Saint Thomas believe that Jesus is the Christ, he will come again and Muslims too are waiting for him, are too waiting for him? |
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Reply 64# sky_ephemeris
Sis, yu hada perasan tak dlm Quran 61:06, Nabi 'Isa a.s. ada menyebut bahawa the last incoming Prophet's name is AHMAD? Why on earth that he did not mention MUHAMMAD instead?
and... Who is AHMAD's identity anyway??? Did you ever notice that both Prophets ('Isa & Muhammad) are talking about the same entity = Holy Character @ Holy Comforter @ Holy Spirit @ Prime Spirit @ Roh Quddus @ Induk/Abu Roh or whatever appropriately you wanna call it?...
(posted by mobile) |
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Hi, that is in Quran. Not in New Testament and Ahmad does it means Spiritu Santu (Roh Suci) or he possess Spiritu Santu like Jesus the Christ because Muslim say that Muhammad is a human-being being with flaw (not divine and not maksum) thus it must also applies to Jesus the Christ?  |
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How about this meaning of divine, Sonny dear? If what has been referred as divine is about the W ...
sky_ephemeris Post at 7-2-2011 21:52
are you saying jesus = god = heavenly = perfect = cleric = theologian = able to foretell through the art of divination = able to know by inspiration, intuition, or reflection = able to guess? poor jesus christ, the son of god. such confusion being dumped at you me lord. ahh, no pouncing. the dict says LORD among others means man of renowned power or authority. |
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simple commonsense gonna tell you you gotta ask the muslims those questions. create the topic in the other forum and you're gonna find they're all too eager to oblige
sonny~~ Post at 7-2-2011 19:50
Aren't you a Muslim sonny? You dare not even admit that Allah is god? What kind of Muslim are you? |
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Post time 7-2-2011 02:21 PM
