Pulau Batu Putih belongs to Malaysia

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 31-3-2004 00:13:
You see, pak lah never got involved in disputes with Singapore at all before he became PM. I did not lie, you lied.

cheers

Oh you keep repeating the same thing here and there. Pak Lah did get involve. You think Deputy Prime Minister would not get involve in matters that involve the soverignity of the country such that even the foreing meinistry is involved? You are a person who knows little yet you dare to make slanderous remarks. I keep on explaining and you keep repeating the same thing all over and over again without solid proof after I have explained. Where is your proof he did not get involved?

Debmey

pak lah stayed clear of disputes with Singapore b4 he became PM. He is smarter than you think he is.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 31-3-2004 10:04:
pak lah stayed clear of disputes with Singapore b4 he became PM. He is smarter than you think he is.

He did not, there you go again, knowing nuts and talk as if you are the expert. Ok, show me a link or a quote from an article that he stayed out of it? Can't produce prove to your claim is it? Thought so.

If that time he disagrees with Malaysia claiming the PB, 5 months after he took over office, why did he not pull out? Also, as a DPM, a PM to be, you think the great Tun Dr. M doesn't let him handle part of this thing? When Dr. M had decided for him to be PM, he will definitely be involve in all the political issues invoving the country. You are one who does not know how Malaysian administration is yet talk so much, making irresponsible claims.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 31-3-2004 10:04:
pak lah stayed clear of disputes with Singapore b4 he became PM. He is smarter than you think he is.

If he stayed off clear the disputes then and wishes to do so now, why does he still not pull Malaysia out of the ICJ? After all, he is the leader of the country and he has the power to do so, why not? Don't say that Dr. M caused the issue that time. Pak Lah amended few of DR. M's projects such as the double tracking railway project in which Dr. M seek to do that time and Pak Lah later postpone it due to economic reasons. Dr. M still being invited in many occasions by Pak Lah. That shows that Pak Lah have such great respect and veneration for that man. So do I!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 25-3-2004 06:26:
Yu see, yu don't even know what pak laha wanst to do to solve the problem. I suggest yu call him and check with him before yu make decision on the behalf of Msia

Of course he does. We already summited to the ICJ. I am telling you that he wants to settle it and he did not stay out of it. Then you twist back and say that I do not know when I have posted sooo....... many times that he did and you are accusing me? It is you who do not know and you are making irresponsible remarks that he stayed out of it during Dr. M's office which he did not. I am merely asking you to prove your claim.

Also, this is one taken from this site. PM of Malaysia's official site:

[quote]http://www.pmo.gov.my/website/webdb.nsf/vf_Front_PM?OpenForm&Seq=2#_RefreshKW_f3_SubPM2

The Prime Ministers of Malaysia and Singapore acknowledged that there are several outstanding bilateral issues that need to be resolved and agreed to go back to the negotiating table in trying to resolve the same. YAB Dato

ariyamusafir

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to show you the logic why pulau Batu Putih is suppose to be Malaysian territory. here is an article that states why with the laws and etc.

http://www.malaysia.net/lists/sangkancil/1998-07/msg00536.html

ISIS (Institute of Strategic and International Studies, Malaysia)
RESEARCH NOTE: 1990

THE SPRATLIES:  WHAT CAN BE DONE TO ENHANCE CONFIDENCE

By B.A. Hamzah

pp8-9:

     Similarly, Singapore objeced to the 'unilateral manner in which
the territorial waters and continental shelf boundaries of Malaysia
were drawn in respect of eastern and western approaches of
Singapore'.  On the western approach, the boundaries have allegedly
encroached into the Singapore's port limits.  Singapore also
protested against the inclusion of the Horsburgh lighthouse into the
Malaysian territory, claiming that it has occupied and exercised
sovereignty over the island since the 1840s.

     Research into the status of Pedra Branca shows evidence to the
contrary.  The present Johore sultanate (now Malaysia) has exercised
complete jurisdiction and sovereignty over Pedra Branca since 1513.
The old Johore-Riau-Lingga sultanate was founded around 1513 by
Sultan Mahmood who abandoned Malacca to the Portuguese in 1511.  In
1824, under the Anglo-Dutch treaty drawn up to put an nd to the
continuing rivalry between Britain and Holland over the Johore
empire, a line was drawn dividing the respective spheres of
influence on either side of the Straits of Malacca and south of
Singapore.  This boundary line places Pedra Branca within the
British sphere of influence and well within the territory of the
present Johore empire as it has legally succeeded to the rights of
the former empire.

     For Singapore to claim ownership of Pedra Branca, the city
state must prove that Pedra Branca was ceded to Britain at the
relevant time in history and that Singapore has rights to succeed to
the British rights.  There is no documentary evidence to suggest
that the island of Pedra Branca was ceded to Britain by the Sultan
of Johore in 1918, 1927 or at any other time in history.  The
British could only transfer to Singapore those rights that they
actually possessed.  The British must have obtained permission from
some authorities in the Johore sultanate (which was politically in a
state of flux at that time) to erect a lighthouse on Pedra Branca.
The lighthouse was officially opened in 1851 and the British had
occupied the island and administered the lighthouse since.  The
other lighthouse which was administered by Britain in Malaysian
territory is on leased territory on Pulau Pisang off Kukup in the
Straits of Malacca.

     There seems to be no doubt the arrangement between Johore and
the British authorities was simply for Britain to erect and maintain
the lighthouses but it was never the intention of the Johore
Sultanate to cede or give away the territories to Britain.  There
appears to be a tendency to confuse administrative jurisdiction with
sovereignty.  For all practical purposes, Pulau Pisang and Pedra
Branca belong to Malaysia unless proven otherwise.

Debmey

Msian source, totally unreliable.

The fact is, PB has been parrt of Singapore for almost 200 years.

The fact is, PB was never in old Msian map.

The fact is, Singapore is still running PB and will never leave no matter how you like to vote. Hahahahahahahahahahahah......................

cheers

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 31-3-2004 23:56:
Msian source, totally unreliable.

The fact is, PB has been parrt of Singapore for almost 200 years.

The fact is, PB was never in old Msian map.

The fact is, Singapore is still running PB ...

Ok, can you bring any proof that the Soverign of Johor did hand over Pulau Batu Putih to Britain????? You have to remember, Johor only gave away Singapore(if not mistaken) to Britain. Johor did not give any other places to Britain. This is based on facts of history. Can you find in any history books that PBP was given to Britain by the then ruler of Johor? After all, before Britain came, Singapore and all the Islands around it all belong to the soverign of johor until Singapore came and until later where Singapore was put under Britain under an agreement between Tengku Hussein and Stamford Raffles(if did not remembered wrongly). Later another agreement or treaty was made between Temenggong Ibrahim and Britain and thus Singapore was under Britain(if did not remembered wrongly). So, you see, Johor only gave Singapore to Britain and not Pulau Batu Putih. Just in case you do not know, another Island called Pulau Pisang, in Pontian, the ligh house there is manned by Singapore but Johor government is very watchful of Singapore activities there. That is another example but is well within the control of us.

You can claim all you want but I produced facts based on articles and history and you know, history cannot change. Where is your facts, or proofs or evidence? If you are just going to simply make irresponsible remarks, such as wild accusations like saying that Malaysian facts cannot be trusted and that we malaysia is lying, when we can produce facts and evidence while you can't produce yours, you will surely lose in the court of law pal!!!!

From your top postings, it is obvious that you do not have the full facts and that you are very desperate now, unable to argue convincingly but just making irresponsible claims such as that our facts cannot be trusted. If, so, others can also turn the table round and accuse you the same way you accuse my evidence. However, I am not going to do so as I am not going to make irresponsible remarks.

I ask you know. I am able to produce evidence from Malaysian sources, are you able to produce evidence from Singapore sources? Can you? I am open to your findings if you can proof it here by placing a link to your government websites, if there is any. I am willing to analys it and see it and check with my sources instead of making irresponsible remarks like you did Debmey!

By the way, Singapore has been part of Johor until when ar??? When was Singapore given to Britain?


[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 1-4-2004 at 12:54 AM ]

Debmey

So why was Singapore running PB for so long and yu dummies left it off all your early maps?

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 1-4-2004 01:06:
So why was Singapore running PB for so long and yu dummies left it off all your early maps?

You people are doing things without our knowledge and without our approval.

Debmey

That means yu people are either stupid or liars. hahahahahahahaha...............
So which is it? Yu can only pick one.  

cheers

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 1-4-2004 09:18:
That means yu people are either stupid or liars. hahahahahahahaha...............
So which is it? Yu can only pick one.  

cheers

Neither.

sutera_abadi

Aikk.... tak abis-abis lagi berbincang keee pasal batu ni....  :hmm:  :hmm:

Pada pendapat saya, selagi belum diputuskan lagi batu ni milik sapa, tak perlulah bertegang urat kat sini....

Apa kata kita ajak mod / supermod ke..... lock thread ni....  boleh tak... !!

ariyamusafir

You still have not given me the proof to support your claim.

Debmey

Based on the given facts, Msians are either stupid or liars, it cannot be otherwise.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 1-4-2004 12:04:
Based on the given facts, Msians are either stupid or liars, it cannot be otherwise.

ANSWER MY QUESTION FIRST DEBMEY, WHERE IS THE PROOF YOU OUGHT TO GIVE WHEN i HAVE GIVEN MINE TO SUPPORT MY CLAIM, IN WHICH YOU SAID THAT MALAYSIAN SOURCE, IN DIRECT ATTACK TO THAT ARTICLE,THAT I POSTED IS NOT RELIABLE.

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 3-4-2004 at 05:59 PM ]

Debmey

What yu habve is not proof but claims.the truth is, PB has been part of Singapore for almost 200 years and was left out of old Msian maps. These are the proofs that PB belongs to Singapore.

Msian govt is either stupid or lying. I think they are stupid liars, what do you think?

C-Fu

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-4-4 05:56 PM:
Msian source, totally unreliable.

The fact is, PB has been parrt of Singapore for almost 200 years.

The fact is, PB was never in old Msian map.

The fact is, Singapore is still running PB ...

hahahha with this kind of sentence one cant help but wonder why did u guys still "debate" with this jerk.

msian souce? tipu punya. sporean source? betul punya. so its ours! hahahhah what a load of crap.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 1-4-2004 13:03:
What yu habve is not proof but claims.the truth is, PB has been part of Singapore for almost 200 years and was left out of old Msian maps. These are the proofs that PB belongs to Singapore.

Msia ...

Ya, and Singapore was once part of Johor-Riau empire remember your history???? Johor at a particular time frame, did hand over Singapore to Britain but did not ceded Pulau Batu Putih to them. There is no documentary proof that Johor cedded Pulau Batu Putih to Britain, only Singapore. In other words, Singapore is no longer part of Johor when it was ceded to Britain but Pulau Batu Putih still under Johor. Also, just to let you know, two islands in the article above/previous page mentioned that there were two lighthouse in two islands being manned by Britain. Till date, the lighthouse in Pulau Pisang, which is part of the Pontian district in Johor and all recognise that internationaly, is still being maintained by Singapore. However, the Johor government is still monitoring Singapore activities on that island very closely. Thus Singapore can't do anything there. Same here, in the past Britain maintained these 2 things.

So, see, we have a good case to go to court.

Debmey

Singapore was sold to the British remember?
Singapore is declared an independent state by the UN in 1965 remember?

You need to go for history 101 again.