You insult people when they give you a proper answer and then ask questions again? Go and learn how to speak properly first, then come and speak to others.
this is just my 2 cents..
Hukum hudud is milik Allah.It stated in Al-Quran and truth.8 please ea AlQuran is not created by Prophet Muhammad .
This is the second time i told you not to regress yourself..Almost all of your freaking opinions come solely from your own so-called-critical thinking without the presence of wisdom which make me wonder whether you have studied this matter enough before even have the slightest idea to question the relevance of hudud.
i dont have to dwell long about hudud ordanance because frankly i am not an expertise in this matter and obviously if you read some of the links given by some other people before with unbias mind and without prejudice, you will understand clearly , the structures and the applications and the purposes of hudud, but again your purpose is not because of knowledge and just to ridicule hudud, then, you are only ridiculing yourself.
If you say that hudud is not relevant at this present time.. i want to ask you what makes you so superior by saying that? who are you? It makes me laugh to see a person need to explain to you repeatedly about chopping one hand and chopping both hands and still you wanna argue about the relevance of hudud??
FYI, Hudud is just some parts of Islamic Law ok.Alim Ulama from thousands years ago ( people of far far more skilful and superior in technology and life)have make tons of reading materials (kitab2) to be references for the future people, even for unimaginable circumstances that we normal people never had it across our mind . about all matter of life.. So, ape yang tak berlaku sekarang, berlaku dulu dan tak berlaku dulu, berlaku sekarang??History tends to repeat itself right?!!
Furthermore, the hudud will be implemented cumpolsary for the Muslims and i wonder why those non-muslims jadi gelabah ayam like its your own hand yang akan kene potong.Why??! Dont tell me you always steal things! ( pardon my stupid jokes).
Well, look at our soceity now? how is the morality of our new generation? How is the state of mind of our people now? Since that Malaysia is islamic country and majority people are muslims, I am 80% agree and support the idea of implementing hudud in our country and for those non-muslims, dont worry, have no fear.. all those potong tangan, baling batu and sebat will be executed compulsarylyto the muslims.. and for the non muslims will be justified in court as usual, mengikut budi bicara hakim ( if heshe ketua kongsi gelap ke, pengedar dadah ker, kn bagus apply hudud saje to them)
but my 20 % of disagreement goes to the fact that we lack of trustworthy and wise people to implement and conduct hudud.. which can lead to catastrophe..
and sephiroth, with all due respect, religion is a part of our lives. There is supposed no separation of religion and laws. To me, Islam is a way of life.it covers every aspects of life, no matter how matter how small it is.
Well, look at our soceity now? how is the morality of our new generation? How is the state of mind of our people now?
There are TWO questions which I could like to ask based on the above statement you have made :-
One :- The condition of Muslims society today (which I could agree is quite pathetic). Do you really think by punishing some Muslims, other Muslims will change their personality and behavior and become good people?
Two :- IF Muslim society FAILED to change anything with the current Muslim society in the future even with implementation of Hudud, do you think Muslims will stop implementing Hudud? Even so if Hudud unable to change anything by default that could mean that Hudud is a failed legislative system.
and sephiroth, with all due respect, religion is a part of our lives. There is supposed no separation of religion and laws.
Yes, religion is also part of our (non-Muslim) lives. How could you like if non-Muslims like us stop respecting the Laws and start distributing Bhavagad Gita or Buddhist sutras to Muslim youths outside their schools or preaching them about our belief system to bring them into our folds? Do you like that? Do you know what stopping us from doing that? COMMON LAWS - NOT the fear of your Syariah or your Allah but COMMON LAWS. a
You insult people when they give you a proper answer and then ask questions again? Go and learn how to speak properly first, then come and speak to others.
firstly, dont act as you knowleged in hindusim...you mentioned Manu received law from vishnu but I says , manu received the law from Brahma....so, tell me now, did manu received law from Bharma or vishnu?
FYI, Hudud is just some parts of Islamic Law ok.Alim Ulama from thousands years ago ( people of far far more skilful and superior in technology and life)have make tons of reading materials (kitab2) to be references for the future people, even for unimaginable circumstances that we normal people never had it across our mind . about all matter of life.. So, ape yang tak berlaku sekarang, berlaku dulu dan tak berlaku dulu, berlaku sekarang??History tends to repeat itself right?!!
..the fact is , muslims themselves do not support hudud..
Hudud can be challenged in court ifpassed, lawyers say -
Bar Council constitutional lawcommittee chairperson Firdaus Husni says hudud can be challenged using Article3, which states that Islam is the religion of the federation. – The MalaysianInsider file pic, March 19, 2015. The move to implement hudud, the Islamicpenal code, can be challenged in court even if it is passed in the Kelantanlegislative assembly today and if it progresses to the parliamentary level andfederal lawmakers vote to allow its enforcement, lawyers said.Bar Council constitutional law committeechairperson Firdaus Husni said the current framework of Malaysia's FederalConstitution did not allow for hudud implementation, based on several articles.They included Article 8, on theequality of all persons, and Article 7, which stipulated protection againstretrospective criminal laws and repeated trial.She said hudud could also bechallenged using Article 3, which stated that Islam was the religion of thefederation."But Article 3 does not meanthat 'Malaysia is an Islamic country and hudud, therefore, must beimplemented'."Instead, the 1993 SupremeCourt case held it to mean that Islam in the context of Article 3 only relatesto rituals and ceremonies," Firdaus told The Malaysian Insider.Legislators in Kelantan, one ofMalaysia's poorest states in the northeast of the peninsula, are set to vote onamendments to the state's Shariah Criminal Code Enactment II (1993)today. It cannot be enforced, however, evenwith the legislative assembly's stamp of approval, becauseof constitutional roadblocks.Like Firdaus, constitutional lawyerSyahredzan Johan said implementing hudud would go against the constitution'sprovision on equal protection under the law and non-discrimination.This would be violated as hududwould introduce different penal laws for Muslims and non-Muslims in Kelantan,if it came into force.In addition, there would bedifferent penal laws for Muslims in Kelantan and Muslims outside the state.He said Article 8 in theconstitution on equality allowed for several exceptions, one of them being"personal laws", but hudud could not qualify as such."Some will argue that this ispersonal law just like khalwat, but it is not. Offences such as theft androbbery are clearly criminal laws and must be implemented uniformly,"he said.The Islamic penal code prescribespenalties like amputation of limbs for theft.Implementation of penal laws whichwere not uniform would be discriminatory and contrary to Article 8, he added.PAS lawyer Hanipa Maidin held adifferent view, saying the argument that criminal law only came under federaljurisdiction could not hold.This is because there were currentlyShariah criminal laws enforceable in all states, whether they fell under hududor not."So they may say it is criminallaw, but we are saying hudud is Islamic law."For instance, when you want toenact something on education and it is about an Islamic kindergarten, how doyou define it, under education or Islamic law," he said.He also quoted the Supreme Courtdecision of Mamat bin Daud vs the Government of Malaysia, which held that aprovision in the Penal Code on public order which impacted on Islamic law wasinvalid as the Parliament had no power to legislate over Islamic matters.In the 1988 case, Section 298A ofthe Penal Code under which Mamat was charged was declared to be anunconstitutional trespass on state legislative power by the Parliament.The Supreme Court held that the lawwas purported to be for public security but was, in fact, a regulation ofreligion, and given that religion is a state issue, the federal governmentcould not use the legislation. “The law was challenged on groundsthat in pith and substance, it involved Islamic law."The highest court held thatthe law was under state jurisdiction, so Section 298A of the Penal Code washeld unconstitutional," Hanipa said of the Mamat case.As such, he said, his view was thathudud was "not criminal law per se", but fell under Islamic law,which was valid under the constitution."So there are always twoarguments, both are valid, but let us agree to disagree," he added.The lawyers were asked to comment onthe contention by Sabah DAP's Sri Tanjong assemblyman Chan Foong Hin that anychanges to introduce hudud in Kelantan must only happen with the consent ofboth Sabah and Sarawak. Chan said in an open letter toParliament Speaker Tan Sri Pandikar Amin Mulia that this was because the NinthSchedule of the Federal Constitution categorically placed "civil andcriminal law and procedure and the administration of justice" under theFederal List."If any state-level hudud isallowed, it is a blow to Federal Constitution, as it places the particularstate (Kelantan) to be more superior then other states as the power on criminaljustice under Federal List is transferred to State List, without consultationby the other states," he said.Sabah federal lawmaker DarellLeiking agreed with Chan, if it had been made clear then that Sabah Muslimswould one day face Shariah criminal law in Kelantan, its people wouldhave chosen to stay under the British or be independent instead of formingMalaysia together with Sarawak and Malaya in 1963.The Penampang MP said Sabah agreedto join the federation on the basis that it was secular, and said dishonouringthe basis of Malaysia's formation was another attempt at destroying thepromises of the country's founding fathers."Barisan Nasional and Umnoshould answer if they want to honour the Malaysia Agreement 1963 and theFederal Constitution. "It would be interesting to seeif the government will support any request to change the criminal justicesystem in Kelantan," Leiking said.In his open letter, Chan urgedPandikar to "prevent any private member's bill that is tantamount tonullifying the Malaysia Agreement and tearing Malaysia apart from beingtabled". – March 19,2015. - See more at:http://www.themalaysianinsider.c ... thash.2vN4OZbV.dpuf
Bar Council constitutional law committee chairperson Firdaus Husni says hudud can be challenged using Article 3, which states that Islam is the religion of the federation. – The Malaysian Insider file pic, March 19, 2015. The move to implement hudud, the Islamic penal code, can be challenged in court even if it is passed in the Kelantan legislative assembly today and if it progresses to the parliamentary level and federal lawmakers vote to allow its enforcement, lawyers said.
Bar Council constitutional law committee chairperson Firdaus Husni said the current framework of Malaysia's Federal Constitution did not allow for hudud implementation, based on several articles.
They included Article 8, on the equality of all persons, and Article 7, which stipulated protection against retrospective criminal laws and repeated trial.
She said hudud could also be challenged using Article 3, which stated that Islam was the religion of the federation. "But Article 3 does not mean that 'Malaysia is an Islamic country and hudud, therefore, must be implemented'.
"Instead, the 1993 Supreme Court case held it to mean that Islam in the context of Article 3 only relates to rituals and ceremonies," Firdaus told The Malaysian Insider.
Legislators in Kelantan, one of Malaysia's poorest states in the northeast of the peninsula, are set to vote on amendments to the state's Shariah Criminal Code Enactment II (1993) today.
It cannot be enforced, however, even with the legislative assembly's stamp of approval, because of constitutional roadblocks.
Like Firdaus, constitutional lawyer Syahredzan Johan said implementing hudud would go against the constitution's provision on equal protection under the law and non-discrimination.
This would be violated as hudud would introduce different penal laws for Muslims and non-Muslims in Kelantan, if it came into force.
In addition, there would be different penal laws for Muslims in Kelantan and Muslims outside the state.
He said Article 8 in the constitution on equality allowed for several exceptions, one of them being "personal laws", but hudud could not qualify as such.
"Some will argue that this is personal law just like khalwat, but it is not. Offences such as theft and robbery are clearly criminal laws and must be implemented uniformly," he said.
The Islamic penal code prescribes penalties like amputation of limbs for theft.
Implementation of penal laws which were not uniform would be discriminatory and contrary to Article 8, he added.
PAS lawyer Hanipa Maidin held a different view, saying the argument that criminal law only came under federal jurisdiction could not hold.
This is because there were currently Shariah criminal laws enforceable in all states, whether they fell under hudud or not.
"So they may say it is criminal law, but we are saying hudud is Islamic law.
"For instance, when you want to enact something on education and it is about an Islamic kindergarten, how do you define it, under education or Islamic law," he said.
He also quoted the Supreme Court decision of Mamat bin Daud vs the Government of Malaysia, which held that a provision in the Penal Code on public order which impacted on Islamic law was invalid as the Parliament had no power to legislate over Islamic matters.
In the 1988 case, Section 298A of the Penal Code under which Mamat was charged was declared to be an unconstitutional trespass on state legislative power by the Parliament.
The Supreme Court held that the law was purported to be for public security but was, in fact, a regulation of religion, and given that religion is a state issue, the federal government could not use the legislation.
“The law was challenged on grounds that in pith and substance, it involved Islamic law.
"The highest court held that the law was under state jurisdiction, so Section 298A of the Penal Code was held unconstitutional," Hanipa said of the Mamat case.
As such, he said, his view was that hudud was "not criminal law per se", but fell under Islamic law, which was valid under the constitution.
"So there are always two arguments, both are valid, but let us agree to disagree," he added.
The lawyers were asked to comment on the contention by Sabah DAP's Sri Tanjong assemblyman Chan Foong Hin that any changes to introduce hudud in Kelantan must only happen with the consent of both Sabah and Sarawak.
Chan said in an open letter to Parliament Speaker Tan Sri Pandikar Amin Mulia that this was because the Ninth Schedule of the Federal Constitution categorically placed "civil and criminal law and procedure and the administration of justice" under the Federal List.
"If any state-level hudud is allowed, it is a blow to Federal Constitution, as it places the particular state (Kelantan) to be more superior then other states as the power on criminal justice under Federal List is transferred to State List, without consultation by the other states," he said.
Sabah federal lawmaker Darell Leiking agreed with Chan, if it had been made clear then that Sabah Muslims would one day face Shariah criminal law in Kelantan, its people would have chosen to stay under the British or be independent instead of forming Malaysia together with Sarawak and Malaya in 1963.
The Penampang MP said Sabah agreed to join the federation on the basis that it was secular, and said dishonouring the basis of Malaysia's formation was another attempt at destroying the promises of the country's founding fathers.
"Barisan Nasional and Umno should answer if they want to honour the Malaysia Agreement 1963 and the Federal Constitution.
"It would be interesting to see if the government will support any request to change the criminal justice system in Kelantan," Leiking said.
In his open letter, Chan urged Pandikar to "prevent any private member's bill that is tantamount to nullifying the Malaysia Agreement and tearing Malaysia apart from being tabled". – March 19, 2015.
- See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.c ... thash.2vN4OZbV.dpuf
Oi @sshole, we're in a hudud thread talking about Hudud. STOP $HITTING ALL OVER THE PLACE and debate like a civilised EDUCATE person. Pretend you are one (civilised or educated or both) even if you are not.
Oi @sshole, we're in a hudud thread talking about Hudud. STOP $HITTING ALL OVER THE PLACE and debate like a civilised EDUCATE person. Pretend you are one (civilised or educated or both) even if you are not.
why need to used bad words on me when mistake on u? you wrote Vishnu provide the law to Manu but it was Bharma provide such law to Manu. Did not it show you are weak in hindusim but pretending to be knowledgeable in hindusim? if you made a mistake, is nothing wrong to admit your mistake? this what i call a ignorance plus ego person that we see in this earth...one example is u.
..or if you think me made mistake, please explain to me whether is Vishnu or Bharma provide such law which Danda to Manu, and make sure it should reliable source with scriptures...not your view...
oh yes, another issue when you said Holy men...this another mistake you made....HOLY is only from God not humans.....humans can be God messenger, sage or God followers but NOT holy, meaning nobody is holy expect GOD.....correct your mistake ok...
so, admit your mistake in humble way and than your soul will be in peace....otherwise...ur soul will be trouble all the time....
I remember writings topic why Anwar not presented in syariah court since both are muslims on the sex offence case which is 'liwat'....personally I feels is syariah court MUST handle this case because both are muslims and one made a sumpah laknat in mosque and infront of kaba..I think , maybe I am saying maybe someone from the authority have read my writings and took my consideration to bring this case to syariah court....ok is good.... since the syariah court is govern by the King...so nobody has right to question what the syariah authority doing...
If syariah court do a fair trial on this case, I think the none muslims will very happy and apperciate the syariah court decision...trust me...May GOD prevalied the truth...
After three years of silence, the Kuala Lumpur Syariah Court of Appeal has decided to call the qazaf case (bearing false witness in a sex offence) between Anwar Ibrahim and Minister in the Prime Minister's Department, Jamil Khir Baharom and two others. source: malaysiakini....
Di bawah Akta Kesalahan Syariah Wilayah Persekutuan 1997, qazaf adalah tuduhan yang dibuat oleh pengadu berhubung dakwaan melakukan maksiat atau dakwaan melakukan hubungan seks tanpa disokong oleh empat saksi lelaki.
PKR will not support hudud bill in Parliament
PKR today declared it will not support the private member's bill on hudud initiated by PAS if it is tabled in Parliament.
This, the party said, is because PAS had taken a unilateral decision in violation of the Pakatan Rakyat leadership council decision on Feb 8.
We loosing many skills peoples in malaysia. there something wrong with this country. islamic law which hudud, racism and leads to peoples to migrate to other country....Malaysia now need to depend on foreigner migrant ....this migrant are unskilled , unhealthy peoples from other country..bangla, mynammar , india, indon and few others....
in years to come many professional and talent will says bye2 to malaysia....as for me? yes, if hudud implemented...
Malaysia faces an exodus of talent. Not only is our education system failing to deliver the required talent, we have not been able to retain local talent of all races nor attract foreign ones due to poor prospects and a lack of high-skilled jobs. Recent figures from the Immigration Department reveal that between 2010 and September last year nearly 108 thousand Malaysians either renounced or revoked their citizenship. In a signal that the trend is on the increase, more than 308 thousand Malaysians have sought greener pastures overseas. We ask why. http://www.bfm.my/bye-bye-malays ... aign=web_highlights
why need to used bad words on me when mistake on u?
Because apparently I cannot find you and beat you senseless ... unfortunately. As I have said, we are talking about HUDUD, NOT HINDUISM. Do you have enough intelligence to understand that?
If you want to ask question about Hinduism, GO AND OPEN ANOTHER THREAD or do it in Hinduism column. DON'T $HIT ALL OVER THE PLACE.
when you said Holy men....HOLY is only from God not humans.....
Do I look like I could care what a Snake thinks about Holy men? Do you really think ANYONE care what YOU think about holy men? I DON'T. NO ONE IS. That is YOUR F#$king OPINION. You are welcome to shoot your mouth, but do not expect us to believe everything you said.
Because apparently I cannot find you and beat you senseless ... unfortunately. As I have said, we are talking about HUDUD, NOT HINDUISM. Do you have enough intelligence to understand that?
yes i have created topic on huduh but you must remember it was you brought the words holy men and debated on the manu issue and you made a mistake by claiming the law was given by vishnu . rather than admiting your mistake you talk big, ignorance, ego, rude and self center...just like the asuras the demon...
by: asuras sepi
If you want to ask question about Hinduism, GO AND OPEN ANOTHER THREAD or do it in Hinduism column. DON'T $HIT ALL OVER THE PLACE.
i have no problem creating topic about the manu, vishnu and bharma...but do you have the guts to debate with me than cursing???
by: asuras sepi
Do I look like I could care what a Snake thinks about Holy men? Do you really think ANYONE care what YOU think about holy men? I DON'T. NO ONE IS. That is YOUR F#$king OPINION. You are welcome to shoot your mouth, but do not expect us to believe everything you said.
than why you bother answring my topic? show me in Gita verses that human can be holy ? rather calling them as rishi , messenger or sage but you further lies calling humans as holy...either you corrupted hindu or lack of knowlege in hindusim...u choose whatever that suit you..
Good, so stick with the subject. Hudud is an Islamic concept NOT Hinduism concept. As I have said before, IF you have any questions about Hinduism, you are welcome to ask in another thread OR in Hinduism column. FULLSTOP.
Good, so stick with the subject. Hudud is an Islamic concept NOT Hinduism concept. As I have said before, IF you have any questions about Hinduism, you are welcome to ask in another thread OR in Hinduism column. FULLSTOP.
oh really? how come in your hindusim forum you posting your personal stories ?political and etc? mind to explain?
DO FIRST THEN TALK.
no problem....my question you dare to challenge my topic ? yes or no...
Ku Nan: Hudud PAS 'hudud politiklah'
Setiausaha Agung BN Datuk Seri Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor menyifatkan rang undang-undang persendirian berkaitan hudud mahu dibentangkan PAS di Parlimen sebagai “hudud politik”.
Ditanya pendirian BN berhubung hasrat PAS itu, beliau berkata Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Najib Razak akan mengeluarkan kenyataan rasmi berhubung perkara itu tidak lama lagi.
Bercakap kepada media selepas sebuah acara di Putrajaya hari ini, Tengku Adnan, yang juga menteri Wilayah Persekutuan, menegaskan bahawa PAS harus mengikuti Perlembagaan Persekutuan.
Ditanya sama ada usaha PAS bertentangan dengan perlembagaan, beliau hanya menjawab “hudud PAS hudud politiklah”.
Menteri BN dan perdana menteri setakat ini masih belum menyentuh berhubung pendirian mereka dalam isu itu walaupun anggota Dewan Undangan Negeri (ADUN) BN Kelantan menyatakan sokongan pada usaha PAS itu.
Manu was the name of the First King of Hindus. In Christianity/Islam context, he is equivalent to Noah. He was given the Laws by Maha Vishnu who saved him, his family, his subjects and 7 other Sages after the great Flood. Humans today are their descendant.
ok i hve created topic on this at hindusim...so let us play the games
one issue need to addressed here...the hudud was an ancient law...during the ancient times...violent, greed, lying, stealing are rampant during that time that include hindusim where 'danga' a kind of hudud was implemented......
one must understand , we now living in modern society with IT with multi races and religion....we have syariah court and modern law....both are good enough at present time...for muslims, if muslims and muslims commit crime , can refer to syariah court...why need to bring to common law?
secondly, if you look at the cultural of arabs even todate, are violent a kind of babaric...even before islam was born, they greed and uncivilized peoples....that why hudud was implemented for them...in Malaysia ...we malaysian not like them...we more civilized..we do not chop head nor violent...
we do not need be pak arabs all the times...common sense...so, keep to syariah court and modern law...it safe our country...
talking about pak arabs...just ponder:
where is the pak arabs when our missing plane ? only western country sent help
where is the pak arabs when tsunami streak? only western country sent help
where is the pak arabs any disaster happened in world? busy counting profits from hajj is it?
Post time 20-3-2015 01:57 PM
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