Pulau Batu Putih belongs to Malaysia

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 5-4-2004 15:26:
Don't touch our land or we will shoot you! Ahahahahahahaha..................

cheers

Who are you to say that???? Are you the one calling the shots??? I DO NOT THINK SO!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Acong at 5-4-2004 14:52:

what ever lah dumboy! there a small piece of land at my backyard, i wonder if goh chok would like to have it? we used it as a septic tank! :cak:

Eh, Debmey, look at Acong, so kind, so generous.

Debmey

There might have been a mistake by the Federal authorities of Malaysia in the printing of maps at that time but that doesn't mean that that island is not yours when, NOT IN ANY TIME FRAME DID JOHOR CEDED THAT ISLAND TO ANYONE UNDER ANY AGREEMENT OR TREATY, ETC.

Mistake you said? How abt we print a new map with JB in it and claimits a mistake, yu will accept it?

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 5-4-2004 23:39:


Mistake you said? How abt we print a new map with JB in it and claimits a mistake, yu will accept it?

First of all, I will check on the maps issue.

Secondly, the fact that the Federal government in negligence in printing maps in no way verify that that island is not ours. Oh.... printing one land in our side which actually is not ours, is very different from not printing the land that is ours. Not printing does not mean it is not ours. Not printing does not mean that we have ceded that island to you. Not knowing that that island is ours when that island is rightfully ours does not make it NOT ours. Not knowing that that island is rightfully ours IS totally very different from claiming another land which belongs to someone and called it ours. This is just an extreme case of examples.

However, the Federal Government do know that that island belongs to us. The only thing is that there might be negligence by civil servants or by government officials in printing the map. By the way, Pulau Pisang is beyong doubt, belongs to Johor and Singapore knows that fact and is beyond arbitrary. However, do you know that in certain tourism maps printed out by the Tourism ministry don't have Pulau Pisang in it though it is already clear and the Johor government knew about Pulau Pisang. In fact the people of Pontian district knows about it.

By the way, the map in which you said printed by Malaysian government, is it used by the tourism industry or is it used by the Malaysian military???

Debmey

They know and yet they did not print it in their map. Contradictory right?

ariyamusafir

Whatever it is, wether we print it or ont, it is non of your Singaporean business, so long as the truth is by law, that Island was never ceded to anyone by the Johor rulers and that claim it is still ours hold.

Debmey

Not only did they not print it on the map,they allowed Singapore to continue ruling the lighthouse unquestioned. Another serious contradiction.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 6-4-2004 23:51:
Not only did they not print it on the map,they allowed Singapore to continue ruling the lighthouse unquestioned. Another serious contradiction.

Oh.. no, we did not allow singapore to continue ruling that island. If we continue to do so, then why we go court now???? Pulau Pisang's lighthouse is also maintained by Singapore but is not into arbitration as it confirmed Johor property. Same as Pulau Batu Putih. Allowing you people to maintain it doesn't mean that we allow you people to claim as yours. Just like that time, Johor did not gave that Island to Britain, only allow it to MAINTAIN the lighthouse and not give it to you!

Debmey

why wait until now? why not back in 1965? even b4 yu were born.

ariyamusafir

As I have said, we might not have known what you did there, only you are suppose to maintain the lighthouse and nothing more. We, might not know about it and it is our fault but then, human errors.

Debmey

There was no such agreement. Where is there such an agrement between singapore and Msia? Where?

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 8-4-2004 15:29:
There was no such agreement. Where is there such an agrement between singapore and Msia? Where?

It was between Britain and Johor during the colonial era. by the way, do you know that SINGAPORE is maintaining the lighthouse in PULAU PISANG which is 100% confirm, no arbitraration, Johor territory under the PONTIAN district along the west coast of Johor above Johor Bahru. Do you know about that??? Do you know that your Singapore is maintaining it when that Island, they knew is not theirs, when the Johor government now is watching closely their movements when they go maintain the lighthouse????? Ask your government? They too knew very well that Pulau Pisang is under Johor and is considered too far off. Without doubt that island is Johorean land. However, just to take the case up whereby to show you that Singapore maintains lighthouse but the island belongs to Malaysia.

During colonial era, Britain maintained the two lighthouse in Pulau Batu Putih and Pulau Pisang. You did not read my post and you know say where????

Please read the emphasize on the one in bold. Last time I posted this, you said that Malaysian source unreliable. Well, what is the meaning. By the way, this is not so much of a source but an analysis based on history on why Pulau Batu Putih belongs to Malaysia.

http://www.malaysia.net/lists/sangkancil/1998-07/msg00536.html

ISIS (Institute of Strategic and International Studies, Malaysia)
RESEARCH NOTE: 1990

THE SPRATLIES:  WHAT CAN BE DONE TO ENHANCE CONFIDENCE

By B.A. Hamzah

pp8-9:

     Similarly, Singapore objeced to the 'unilateral manner in which
the territorial waters and continental shelf boundaries of Malaysia
were drawn in respect of eastern and western approaches of
Singapore'.  On the western approach, the boundaries have allegedly
encroached into the Singapore's port limits.  Singapore also
protested against the inclusion of the Horsburgh lighthouse into the
Malaysian territory, claiming that it has occupied and exercised
sovereignty over the island since the 1840s.

     Research into the status of Pedra Branca shows evidence to the
contrary.  The present Johore sultanate (now Malaysia) has exercised
complete jurisdiction and sovereignty over Pedra Branca since 1513.
The old Johore-Riau-Lingga sultanate was founded around 1513 by
Sultan Mahmood who abandoned Malacca to the Portuguese in 1511.  In
1824, under the Anglo-Dutch treaty drawn up to put an nd to the
continuing rivalry between Britain and Holland over the Johore
empire, a line was drawn dividing the respective spheres of
influence on either side of the Straits of Malacca and south of
Singapore.  This boundary line places Pedra Branca within the
British sphere of influence and well within the territory of the
present Johore empire as it has legally succeeded to the rights of
the former empire.

    For Singapore to claim ownership of Pedra Branca, the city
state must prove that Pedra Branca was ceded to Britain at the
relevant time in history and that Singapore has rights to succeed to
the British rights.  There is no documentary evidence to suggest
that the island of Pedra Branca was ceded to Britain by the Sultan
of Johore in 1918, 1927 or at any other time in history.  The
British could only transfer to Singapore those rights that they
actually possessed. The British must have obtained permission from
some authorities in the Johore sultanate (which was politically in a
state of flux at that time) to erect a lighthouse on Pedra Branca.
The lighthouse was officially opened in 1851 and the British had
occupied the island and administered the lighthouse since. The
other lighthouse which was administered by Britain in Malaysian
territory is on leased territory on Pulau Pisang off Kukup in the
Straits of Malacca.

     There seems to be no doubt the arrangement between Johore and the British authorities was simply for Britain to erect and maintain
the lighthouses but it was never the intention of the Johore
Sultanate to cede or give away the territories to Britain. There
appears to be a tendency to confuse administrative jurisdiction with
sovereignty. For all practical purposes, Pulau Pisang and Pedra
Branca belong to Malaysia unless proven otherwise.

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 8-4-2004 at 07:06 PM ]

Debmey

Where is there such an agreement between Singapore and Msia? Where?
If the Msians knew all along that Pedra Brnca belonged to them and the British had the rights to manage the lighthouse, why didn't they take back the island after the British left? Why make claims only now?

ariyamusafir

You did not read did you???

For Singapore to claim ownership of Pedra Branca, the city state must prove that Pedra Branca was ceded to Britain at the
relevant time in history and that Singapore has rights to succeed to
the British rights.

One question, why still we allow Singapore to maintain the lighthouse in Pulau Pisang??? Singapore knows that that is ours and can not claim rights on to, why they still maintain it????

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 8-4-2004 19:27:
Where is there such an agreement between Singapore and Msia? Where?
If the Msians knew all along that Pedra Brnca belonged to them and the British had the rights to manage the lighthouse, why did ...

I didn't say between Malaysia and Singapore. Also, why, they didn't do anything that time, I think, they did not notice that Sing is building structures there and might think that you guys are just doing the maintaining part. However, the true answer as why, I do not know.

Debmey

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 2004-4-8 10:51 PM:

I didn't say between Malaysia and Singapore. Also, why, they didn't do anything that time, I think, they did not notice that Sing is building structures there and might think that you  ...

There has always been structures on the island. How can they not notice that Singapore has been building new structures when there is a naval base just less than 20km away?
I think its more a matter of Msian navy knowing that PB belongs to Singapore.

malaysian ppl must be blind! hahahaha!

What a bloody waste of time to talk cock here when the issue is already at the ICJ.

ariyamusafir

Let us just wait till 2006 and we will se if Debmey is right or I am right according to the ICJ

Why are you people arguing over an island with no economic significance at all?

Sorry... I must be thinking like a typical chinese.

:lol