The root of all evil

Agul

Originally posted by lealaurielle at 3-7-2008 01:01 AM
Take for instance, Cruella from 101 Dalmation - she can be nasty but she's actually a poor, lonely soul who'd sell her soul to the devil for spots; now, how can we say being determined in getting what we want as evil?

Evil is harming others. Does she harm anyone in the process? Does she harm herself? If yes, for what it's worth, that could be evil.

Seems that she is really insecure and wants love, approval and admiration from others.

Determination is great.
But what's wrong with getting things easily, without journey without struggle, without effort, without story and drama.

ussopp

salam....

people can kill with innocent face and smile.

we cant absolutley determine evil or good from face expression or style..
but they are always sign.

eviliciously evil in your definition is not evil I think.. yes you can still be good with it.

[ Last edited by  ussopp at 3-7-2008 11:26 AM ]

ussopp

ooo...insecurities....

is there any root from this insecurities....and is there any root for the root....

is insecurities the 'rootest'?

actually I agree with insecurities but before this, i want to give another try for the root of evil but I dont think it 'root' enough...

i think the root of evil is LIE....

but reading previous post made me think that insecurities is 'rooter' than lie.

LIe maybe is the root of any evil action. specificly for evil action.

but insecurities is more general...so its 'rooter'. I mean root for the root.

is there any root for the root of insecurities?

[ Last edited by  ussopp at 3-7-2008 11:48 AM ]

Agul

as far as i can see, that is the real root.

If there is a tree, practically,

we have thought lots of thought during the day (cells). those thought were motivated by different feelings (leaves). All these different feelings combine to form the nine basic feeling (branches). Feeling culminates in programs, which is the爏ense爋f lacking approval, and control (stem). Both of these come from wanting to survive, or wanting security. Why want security? because we feel that we lack security (roots). So based on my current understanding insecurities is the root.

And爄nsecurities燾omes爁rom爓hat?爁eeling爏eperate,爓hich,爉ay燽e爐he爏oil.

The Nine basic emotion
1. Apathy: We feel as if desire is dead and it is of no use
2. Grief: We want somebody to help us because we can't do it. We cry out in pain.
3. Fear: We want to strike out, but we don't because we think the risk is too great.
4. Lust: We desire possession. We are wanting. But we have hesitation.
5. Anger: We desire to strike out to hurt and stop others, but with hesitation.
6. Pride: We want to maintain the status quo. We are unwilling to change or move.
7. Courageousness: We have the willingness to act without hesitation.
8. Acceptance: We have and enjoy everything as it is.
9. Peace: We feel whole, complete and total.

I don't爃ave the picture of this imaginary tree of limitation with me.

ussopp

agree

oh, great tree and soil.

i enjoyed climbing it downward.

hamizao

I guess it is the unreasonable fear that can impact you negatively.....perhaps also more "rooter" than just fear or insecurities. People sometimes go through too great a length to ensure that the fear is neutralised....over neutralised at times to the point of having negative impact on others.............like collateral damage perhaps? This concept is like a passport to evil and brutality. But then how do you take out the culprits if they go hide behind women and children?

Anyone has a take on this?

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 3-7-2008 11:26 PM ]

noone

DARTH VADER.

Is he evil?

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 3-7-2008 11:09 PM
I guess it is the unreasonable fear that can impact you negatively.....perhaps also more "rooter" than just fear or insecurities. People sometimes go through too great a length to ensure that the fear is neutralised....over neutralised at times to the point of having negative impact on others.............like collateral damage perhaps? This concept is like a passport to evil and brutality. But then how do you take out the culprits if they go hide behind women and children?

Anyone has a take on this?

Unreasonable fear, or reasonable fear, both are fear (insecurities).  The fear being reasonable or not depends on ou takes on it, based on our own or someone else experience. Sometime what we think reasonable fear are actually not that reasonable. Sometime it is a reasonable precaution, and being smart.

People do that because of their own fear. They fear terror attack so they become the terrorist themselves. They are fearful, insecure so they want to control other people through fear. All this emotional blackmail saometime have such a great and physical repercussion. Napoleon and Hitler would not rise to power if not for their insecurities.

IMHO, they are not really neutralising fear per se, they are just trying to control fear through fear. So the destructive cycle commences.

War will never stop war, violence will never stop violence, abuse wil never stop abuse, fear will never stop fear, insecurities will never stop insecurities. Only when we have enough people feeling happy, peaceful, loving and secure within themselves do we have a chance at this. We try to find the culprit, stop them, restrain them, punish them... it will never end. Only being loving can.

The question is, How can more and more people be loving, peaceful and secure? No more of this燼gflapping business trying to control others, just so we can be secure.

I think we have a chance. How long? Maybe in 4 years, 8 months, or 100 years, 1000 or a million year from now on.

Agul

All fear really is the fear of death.

In the form of wanting to die, wanting to live, fear of death, and fear of living.

Kill this, and everything will turns out ok.

Agul

I'm not educated in the way of the jedi, maybe some star war afficianiado could chirp in...

anyone?

hamizao

I guess what I am trying to say is, you shouldn't just group all the fear/insecurities and say that's the root of evil. As you have rightly expressed, "unreasonable" fear or insecurities is again subject to one's perception and if I may add...........of the truth one is facing. There would surely be differences in the way people see things. But then nature is nature. It evolves the way it should. You tip the balance something unwelcomed wiould happen. So would you agree then the fault lies in the human mind? :cf:

noone

I don't think he knows that everyone thinks he is evil. After all, he only wanted to save his wife. He thinks he is right (good?).

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 4-7-2008 01:01 AM
I guess what I am trying to say is, you shouldn't just group all the fear/insecurities and say that's the root of evil. As you have rightly expressed, "unreasonable" fear or insecurities is again subject to one's perception and if I may add...........of the truth one is facing. There would surely be differences in the way people see things. But then nature is nature. It evolves the way it should. You tip the balance something unwelcomed wiould happen. So would you agree then the fault lies in the human mind?

If that is not the real root, in your opinion, what is the root?

As far as I can, say, everything, all problem, all爀vil come from insecurity, or fear. I might strecth this to far but all fear can be traced to the fear of dying. If it's fear, it's a fear of dying. So fear of dying is the root of all evil.

Can you give an example of evil that do not come from insecurities? Let us analyse togetehr if it really is not insecurities.

Agul

maybe in his oipnion he is good, or at best, not evil. However all other people seem to think otherwise...

So, other people (or alien race ) think he's evil, but he don't see himself that way..

hamizao

Originally posted by Agul at 4-7-2008 06:54 AM
If that is not the real root, in your opinion, what is the root?

As far as I can, say, everything, all problem, all evil come from insecurity, or fear. I might strecth this to far but all fear can be traced to the fear of dying. If it's fear, it's a fear of dying. So fear of dying is the root of all evil. ...

Just as what you say, insecurities is not = securities, which I agree, fear of death is not = instinct to survive. The "illuminated" or enlightened, do not fear death as it is definite but the instinct to survive and the mind that accompanies it may in many ways decide how death is to happen. The following excerp I got from a friend's site, somewhat summises my thoughts,

"SOMETIME ALLAH BREAKS OUR SPIRIT TO SAVE OUR SOUL.
HE BREAKS OUR HEART TO MAKE US WHOLE.
HE SENDS US PAIN SO WE CAN BE STRONGER.
HE SENDS US FAILURE SO WE CAN BE HUMBLE.
HE SENDS ILLNESS SO WE CAN TAKE CARE OF OURSELF.
SOMETIMES ALLAH TAKES EVERYTHING AWAY FROM US,
SO WE CAN LEARN THE VALUE OF EVERYTHING HE GAVE US ."

We need to have the right concept of things. What is it that makes some people illuminated and some feel insecure or anything at all but then resort to self annihilation or destruction, some fear death or do evil unto others.....? I reckon its the mind, the distorted mind/thinking is more root of evil, if not it.

Just think of any difficult situation you may have experienced before. Interpret it in a more rational and realistic thought. People tend to have negative self-talk.  Fear is basically emotion triggered by our interpretations of events. Those who allow their love of power to give them a distorted view of the world may also  cause hardships and terror to others. We should engage in positive self-talk to steer ourselves to happier lives.

"The thought manifests as the words;
The word manifest as the deed;
The deed develops into habit;
And habit hardens into character."
- Buddha

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 6-7-2008 02:14 AM ]

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 6-7-2008 02:08 AM


Just as what you say, insecurities is not = securities, which I agree, fear of death is not = instinct to survive. The "illuminated" or enlightened, do not fear death as it is definite but th ...

Yes.

About the only way is for us to come into realization. And religion or devotion is one of the way for that.

Outside things, people could always be taken away from us. Staking our secutity on them is like building a house on quicksand.
This do not mean that we must not have securities, by all means, have all the securities there are, but be aware that all this can only give apparent securities.

dutchy

I concur ~ money is not the root of evil, and yes insecurities is, when you don't have a steady footing in live, every little things scares you and you are more willing to take that as a reason for them in trying to get you

dutchy

"The thought manifests as the words;
The word manifest as the deed;
The deed develops into habit;
And habit hardens into character."
- Buddha

how true hami dear ~habit hardens into character

Agul

Since there are no examples I'll try to give an example how any evil comes from insecurities only. How all fear are really, in牋essence are fear of dying.I am underlining only because there are no other reason, at least that i can see.

We act nice, we say yes when we really means no, we buy things that we don't want, we allow others to be give us the runaround, we are afraid to give a talk infront of people... In all these cases, we seems to want approval, we want people to approve, respect, admire or like us. Why? Because we don't want to die. Basically, if they don't like us, we die.

You may say that you're not afraid to die, you're afraid of not having enough money, or losing the one you love.It may not be physical death, it could be emotional, intellectual, or creative death. All of牋which really is ego death. We are afraid of afraid that our ego wil燿ie.

Many people爉ight mot fear being hit by a car, however if we ask them if they feel ok giving a speech to thousand of disapproving people, stark naked, the insecurity is now more clear.

Don't get me wrong,牋Idon't condone giving牋speech, naked.

Now my definition of evil could be a little different from most people. For example buying something just to please our MLM friend is evil, directed to our own self... Evil could be something that stiffle, or stops you from doing things that you want, or like, as long as it harms no one.

hamizao

Heheheheh...At 2am I could barely summon my grey matter to come out with examples, dear Agul!
Nah...prefer to leave that to you perhaps so that I have more time to focus on it latter!

I think we ought to have an understanding of what "evil " is. Personally, I am not really settled where this is concerned.

Taking a biblical stance, ...before there was good, there was evil. What was it? There was chaoos, disorder and disrespect. God booted Adam and Eve from his garden after they disobeyed His order. He destroyed the world with flood after people act sinfully. He lashed out his so called liberated people after they built a calf to worship. He summoned Nebuchadnezzar to wipe out Jerusalem after the people despoiled the Promised Land with debauchery. Generally, people of all religion accept that goodness is achieved through "good thoughts, good words and good deeds"

However, my stance is that "evil" is far worst than "bad". If we are simply buying something we don't really need may really be insignificant unless we do this over and over simply to deny the needy people from having it.

We act nice, we say yes when we really means no, we buy things that we don't want, we allow others to be give us the runaround, we are afraid to give a talk infront of people... In all these cases, we seems to want approval, we want people to approve, respect, admire or like us. Why? Because we don't want to die. Basically, if they don't like us, we die.

Sorry I cannot follow the arguement here, dear. How the stage fright people want to die? I am totally lost! Or are you saying that's what they feel like? Anyway, about giving  speech, naked, where can you do that?  Even streakers had to run for their lives!