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nightlord posted on 23-6-2013 10:10 PM 
NEWS FLASH JUNE 23 2013:
Another example of killing of innocents by "good" muslims -
"PESHAWAR, Pakistan - Gunmen stormed a mountaineering base camp in northern Pakistan on Sunday and shot dead nine foreign trekkers and a Pakistani guide as they rested during an arduous climb up one of the world's tallest peaks, police said.
The night-time raid - which killed five Ukrainians, three Chinese and a Russian - was among the worst attacks on foreigners in Pakistan in a decade and underscored the growing reach of militants in a highland region once considered secure."
Can you explain just who are the gunmen? They could have been bandits for all its worth.
Are you not critical in your thinking?
I thought I did request you to comment on ex president George 'god spoke to me' Bush. Isn't that an invasion driven by religious motive? How many dead from that illegal invasion?
Last edited by sam1528 on 23-6-2013 11:33 PM
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This is not from Al Jazeera. This is from 'Front Page Magazine' controlled by David Horowitz , a known rabid Islamophobe. This is a hate site
I will respond to each point :
Qaradawi addressed his Al Jazeera viewers, quoting from a series of Koranic verses and hadiths, which read in part, “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle is that they should be murdered or crucified…Kill whomever changes his faith [from Islam]…”
This is exactly what I explained in my post#57. The death penalty is for the people who apostatised and then waged war against the muslims. 'Kill those who changes his faith' is not the words of Prophet Muhammad(saw). It is a paraphrase by Ibn Abbas. Why are you appealing to a disingenuous argument?
For starters Qaradawi believes it acceptable under Islam to punish disobedient wives by using them as human speed bags, having once said that while beating a wife is “neither obligatory nor desirable” it is “acceptable as a method of last resort – though only lightly.”
For those who may be unclear as to what Qaradawi defines as “lightly,” one can reference his 1984 book, The Lawful and Prohibited in Islam, in which he wrote “a husband may beat his wife lightly with his hands, avoiding her face and other sensitive areas.”
The arabic word in the said verse is 'daraba'. It does not mean hit or bash someone
Important Note: Notice how Allah Almighty in Noble Chapter (Surah) 4 He used "daraba (4:34" and "darabtum (4:94)", which are both derived from the same root. He used both words in the same Chapter, which tells me that "daraba" in Noble Verse 4:34 means to desert or leave, since that's what its derived word meant in Noble Verse 4:94. The next section below will further prove my point.
I am sure there are more Noble Verses that used words derived from "daraba" in the Noble Quran, but these are the only ones I know of so far. In the case of Noble Verse 4:34 where Allah Almighty seems to allow men to hit their wives after the two warnings for ill-conduct and disloyalty, it could very well be that Allah Almighty meant to command the Muslims to "leave" the home all together and desert their wives for a long time in a hope that the wives would then come back to their senses and repent.
So it is not the brutal thrashing proposed by non muslims. The word used in the Quran has many meanings which are equally viable. If we take the meaning of beat for example, it will be as to tap someone or to give them a sign that what they are doing is wrong. It is not to BEAT them up. Its like tapping someone on the shoulder and saying STOP. This is not beating.
On the other hand , domestic violence is very high in the christian society. This is because there is no injunction in the bible to address these issues :
There could be no doubting the veracity of these women's stories. Their pastors really had pooh-poohed their fears and concerns, and, Bible in hand, had essentially pushed them back into the swinging arms of their abusive husbands.
Now its rape?
“To be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct,” adding, “Since Islam addresses women to maintain their modesty, as not to open the door for evil… for a rape victim to be absolved from guilt, she must not be the one that opens… her dignity for deflowering.”
Qardawi is right. Why should a woman provide any opportunity for rape to occur? This simply means to guard her modesty. The penalty for rape in the Quran is death and it falls under 'hirabah' therefore the nonsense of needing 4 witnesses (as widely touted by christians) is not needed. On the other hand , the penalty for rapist in the bible is to pay 50 shekels and marry the victim (deut22:29). Where is the justice?
In 2004 Qaradawi wrote a fatwa on IslamOnline that offered burning or stoning as an acceptable punishment for those who practice homosexuality, adding, “While such punishments may seem cruel, they have been suggested to maintain the purity of the Islamic society and to keep it clean of perverted elements.”
There is no such thing as homosexuals in Islam. The death penalty is for sodomy or anal intercourse. Therefore the death penalty is for the act not the behavior. To indict such act , one needs to have 4 reliable witnesses. This is virtually impossible unless the couple does it in public. The bible also advocate death penalty for homosexuals (lev20:13). The question here how do you ascertain such? This is the failure of the bible.
If Allah isn’t available to kill the Jews, Qaradawi has endorsed utilizing suicide bombers to accomplish the task, a position he expressed in a 2005 BBC interview in which he said:
Allah Almighty is just; through his infinite wisdom he has given the weak a weapon the strong do not have, and that is their ability to turn their bodies into bombs, as Palestinians do…I consider this type of martyrdom operation as an evidence of God’s justice.
This is valid. The Palestanians are being killed needlessly by the zionists. Why can't they defend themselves and bring the fight to the enemy who is genocidal in nature? In fact biblical Samson have been exalted in the bible for being a 'suicide bomber' killing the biblical god enemies.
I am beginning to notice a trend. Most of you christians , your arguments are just copy paste from sites like 'atlas shrug' , 'front page mag' , 'faith freedom'etc which are actually hate sites. Whereas the muslim like me get our data from reputable scholars / academicians whose credentials can be verified.
We muslims present data , you christians present rhetorics.
Last edited by sam1528 on 24-6-2013 12:20 AM
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nightlord posted on 23-6-2013 10:29 PM
You have to understand why i find it pointless, to quote so much from the Bible or the Quran so much , as i have to no need to remind either side in small quotes sometimes take the quote out of context. Unless the Surah or Verse can stand on its own.
Like muslims love to quote from the old testament - please understand that we Christians because of the arrival of Jesus and the writing of the new testament - Whatever you quote from the Old Testament is the reminder of the Jewish past that Jesus wish to correct and deliver them from the ruinous path they are taking. The Old Testament is the Jewish Torah.
And as for the muslims, you have to admit sometimes that there are downsides to your religion, the killing of apostates are SANCTIONED in most of the Muslim countries in the world, Malaysia and Indonesia are clear exceptions. But there is a penal code that says if a muslim apostates then he can be fined and put into a "rehabilitation" centre for up to 3 yrs. Many times taking the person away from family and children.
That is why Malaysian muslims have to begin taking a more global view of their religion.
Do you know why you shy from quoting the bible? It is because in comparison the bible is worse off. This is the reality of it.
I find you trying to sideline the OT to be very inconsistent. You admitted that you believe biblical Jesus to be god because he supposedly said 'I AM' which you connect with the OT in which the biblical god stated 'I AM WHAT I AM'. This means selective faith. I find most christians having this mentality. Accept what you like and leave out what you don't like.
The so called downside to the religion is due to the actions of muslims or injunction in the Quran / hadith? All of your arguments stems from the action of a few which you broadbrush the religion. Both of us can play the same game. The one getting hit harder is you or christianity. Its easily seen when we look into the bible and the data presented by academics who actually did the research / study.
How do you propose we move forward? A lot of Malaysian muslims have a wider global view than you.
Last edited by sam1528 on 24-6-2013 12:32 AM
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Famous quote by shameless delusional ustazy; I am beginning to notice a trend. Most of you christians , your arguments are just copy paste from sites like 'atlas shrug' , 'front page mag' , 'faith freedom'etc which are actually hate sites. Whereas the muslim like me get our data from reputable scholars / academicians whose credentials can be verified.
We muslims present data , you christians present rhetorics.......................................... ..................... |
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wkk5159 posted on 24-6-2013 10:17 AM
This is what being a muslim can turn a normal person into. In 21st century, no other faith will turn ...
The problem here is, Muslims like that murderer was allow to speak and demonstrate his evil attitude in public so he could seed fear on the hearts of the public.
Proper action could be if the public were to pick up large steel pipe, hunt people like this down and beat him to death in the street. It will be Justice and when this monster lies dying, he will see whether his allah is great or not.
People like that murderer do not worship God. He has NOTHING to do with God. The place he will go is Hell. |
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Islamic Cleric Calls UK Soldier’s Beheading “A Courageous And Heroic Act”
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Sephiroth posted on 24-6-2013 10:30 AM
The problem here is, Muslims like that murderer was allow to speak and demonstrate his evil attitu ...
Don't worry, justice will prevail in the end. Trust me !
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wkk5159 posted on 24-6-2013 10:37 AM
Don't worry, justice will prevail in the end. Trust me !
Expecting Justice from Muslims is like being in a desert and expecting rain to fall.
No, Non-Muslims should not expect Justice from Muslims no matter how sweet they speak. Find a weapon, look for this murderer and beat him to death.
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One of the world's most respected Sunni scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, recently told an audience on his al-Jazeera television show that "To be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct."
Some clerics blame rape on the woman. Australian Sheik Feiz recently said a rape victim "has no one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world... to tease man and appeal to his carnal nature."
Small wonder why Islam is the most retrograde forces in the universe !
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Sephiroth posted on 24-6-2013 10:49 AM
Expecting Justice from Muslims is like being in a desert and expecting rain to fall.
No, Non-Mu ...
No, you get me wrong. I don't expect justice from muslims( need i say more about Islamic justice ?).
What i mean is....if you are Buddhist, there will get the justice in the form of karma !
Or simply, they will get their judgement during Armageddon !
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wkk5159 posted on 24-6-2013 10:17 AM
This is what being a muslim can turn a normal person into. In 21st century, no other faith will turn ...
Ha ha , after getting buttkicked , now you turn to the 'woolwich attacker'?
Surprise - surprise , the following is a report from 'The Independent' :
Speaking from a café in the shadow of a mosque in an east Lancashire town, just before midday prayers, Mr Zuybyr said: "Why did he suddenly flip?" As family members struggled for explanations for Mr Adebolajo's actions, they speculated that pressure from the security services to turn informer may have pushed him to act.
"That is what the [Mr Adebolajo's] family is saying; that the secret service pushed him over the edge," his brother-in-law claimed.
Mr Zuybyr claimed his brother-in-law had been tortured violently, threatened with rape and his private parts had been grabbed.
Mr Zuybyr also alleged that, when Mr Adebolajo returned to Britain, he had been pestered by MI5 about informing for them. He added that other members of the family had been quizzed about Mr Adebolajo in an effort to put pressure on him.
Hmmm , it sort of throws a new light to the issue. Probably the members of the secret service are christians .... Ha ha , got you again
Last edited by sam1528 on 24-6-2013 12:20 PM
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wkk5159 posted on 24-6-2013 11:09 AM
No, you get me wrong. I don't expect justice from muslims( need i say more about Islamic justice ? ...
Pal, you are sadly mistaken. Karma is for Good people with Consciousness. Muslims are not good people nor do they have consciousness. What world are you living in? Stop your daydream and stop waiting for Karma to catch up.
Do you think people who willing to kill their own daughters (via honor killing) just for speaking to a boy going to give a damn about your Karma?
My Justice is simple - an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. They steal from us, we beat them to a pulp. They harm our women, we will beat them to a pulp. They kill the innocent, we beat them to a pulp. They daydream about Jihad, or 72 virgins in heaven or some god named Allah who is so damn great it wants our blood, WE WIPE THEM OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
That is Justice. Fear for Fear, Terror for Terror, Death for Death.  |
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Sephiroth posted on 24-6-2013 02:03 PM
Pal, you are sadly mistaken. Karma is for Good people with Consciousness. Muslims are not good peo ...
I understand your hatred for this cult but do you sincerely think an eye for eye kind of retribution will get you any where ???
What version of karma are you believing ? Hindu ?
To my understanding, Buddhism karma apply both to good and bad doers, they can't escape the eventual cause and effect law.
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wkk5159 posted on 22-6-2013 07:35 PM
The Nippon wannabe muslim does it again, ok..... mark my word,
i think you are a humanoid with cer ... @wkk5159
The Nippon wannabe muslim does it again, ok..... mark my word,
i think you are a humanoid with cerebrum, therefore this sentence by your logic can be meant; I pretty sure you don't have cerebrum.
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wkk5159 posted on 24-6-2013 03:09 PM
This should get your attention
(1) spanking for jesusWhen a follower of the Christian Domestic Discipline movement decides what to hit his God-fearing wife with, research is important. A hairbrush, for example, is "excellent for achieving the desired sting" but can break easily. Alternatively, a ping pong paddle is quiet and sturdy but may not sting as much as is required to get the message across.
These bits of information are among the tips and tricks detailed in the Beginning Domestic Discipline's "Beginner's Packet," a 54-page document that lays out the basic principles and practices of CDD.
(2) pagan churchReverend Steve Hollinghurst, a researcher and adviser in new religious movements told the BBC: “I would be looking to formulate an exploration of the Christian faith that would be at home in their culture.”
He said it would be “almost to create a pagan church where Christianity was very much in the centre.”
The Church Mission Society, which is training ministers to “break new ground”, hopes to see a number of spiritual people align themselves with Christianity.
The new move could see famous druids such as druid leader Arthur Pendragon move to Anglicanism.
This is desperation from the church
The age profile of church attendees in the UK
In 10 years the church attendees in the UK will have a mean age of ~60 and ~4.5% of the population.
This means that christianity has lost the theological battle.
Last edited by sam1528 on 24-6-2013 07:05 PM
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nightlord posted on 23-6-2013 10:29 PM
You have to understand why i find it pointless, to quote so much from the Bible or the Quran so much ...
@nightlord
You have to understand why i find it pointless, to quote so much from the Bible or the Quran so much, as i have to no need to remind either side in small quotes sometimes take the quote out of context. Unless the Surah or Verse can stand on its own.
I beg to differ with you on this. You have been mentioning a lot of thing about Islam to prove its downside, but you didn't even quote anything from Al-Quran at all to prove your points. Instead, you prefer to walk in someone else's shoe [post #30] and insist on using wrongdoers examples. Sorry to say, that doesn't sound fair to me.
What I find pointless is quoting the wrongdoers activity and make it as Islam downside. You forget that since your judgement of a religion is based upon wrongdoers, you indirectly admitted that there is downside in the Christianity itself (Thanks bro @sam1528 for providing the evidence of killing in Christianity and of course with data).
I would like to emphasize that my judgement of truth is based upon the guidance from the Creator himself which in Islam is the Al-Quran, and not based upon on walking in someone else's shoe and take the wrongdoers examples.
Again, with the greatest respect kindly bring forward a proper evidence.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Last edited by mashimaru83 on 24-6-2013 11:22 PM
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Killing of innocents !
Takfiri extremists kill prominent Shia Sheikh and 4 others in Egypt
Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:13PM GMT
Shias, who form just one percent of Egypt’s population, are often under attack by extremist groups in the North African country."
Prominent Egyptian Shia cleric, Sheikh Hassan Shehata, and four of his devotees have been killed in a brutal attack carried out by Takfiri extremists in Giza Province near Cairo.
The attack was carried out on Sunday when a crowd of several hundred assailants attacked Sheikh Shehata’s home and then set it on fire at the village of Abu Mussalam.
Brutal scenes of the crime were posted on the internet late Sunday, showing men dragging Sheikh Shehata’s bloody body on the street and beating him as the Sheikh chanted “Allahu Akbar [God is Great].”
Dozens of other devotees who were at Sheikh Shehata’s house for commemorating a Shia holy day were also injured.
Dr. Khaled Hamza, General Manager of Hawamdia Hospital in Giza, where the Sheikh was taken after the incident, said:
“Initial medical reports reveal that when Sheikh Hassan Shehata arrived to the hospital, he appeared to be slaughtered from his neck, in addition to several injuries around his body,” adding that “the rest of the bodies had several injuries as well as skull fractures.”
Egypt’s security forces have been sent to the village to disperse the crowds and contain the situation.
The Egyptian Prime Minister Hesham Kandil has denounced the incident, saying he was closely following the investigation into the attack and promised that the culprits will be punished.
The incident comes a week after Takfiri clerics insulted Shia Muslims during a rally attended by the Egyptian president.
Shias, who form just one percent of Egypt’s population, are often under attack by extremist groups in the North African country.
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Dear Mashimaru83,
You muslims asks for examples and for these 3 days i try to give you the latest on muslims killing in the name of Allah for a perceived threat or slight.
We Christians do not pull out a cleaver and hack someone to death and shout "Praise Jesus".
Every time a muslim kills you guys just say 'oh that is not normal, he killed because he is a bad muslim, and unbalanced'
What i say to you is that Islam allows a violent person to take a life and justifies it in Allah's name. It is a psychological conditioning that allows ANY muslim if he so chooses to take the life of any American or caucasian, Christian, Jew, deviant muslims, apostates -- people who are fair game because the Quran and Hadith allows it.
I am just proving a point with real life examples of muslims taking law into their own hands, and in the name of Islam. So i repeat how do a MUSLIM define a good muslim and a bad muslim ?
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Post time 23-6-2013 11:31 PM
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Author
