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View: 10736|Reply: 77
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Not converting to Islam = betraying Jesus???
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Source : https://my.news.yahoo.com/uitm-l ... lims-063900433.html
SHAH ALAM, May 6 ― Christians are betraying God unless they convert to Islam, a former Catholic priest told a seminar on the use of the word “Allah” and Christology at Universiti Teknologi Mara (UiTM) here today.
Christology is the study of the life of Jesus Christ based on the records of his disciples in the New Testament.
“Every Jesus follower should enter Islam, if not it would be a betrayal to Jesus,” Indonesian lecturer Insan L. S. Mokoginta told a thousand-strong audience that included former Malaysian prime minister Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
I don't understand the logic here. How is not converting to Islam equal to betraying Jesus? Did Jesus told his followers - "You wait lah. An Arab named Muhammad going to come and you must follow him or you will betray me." IF Jesus said that, then what is the use of Jesus in the first place? Why did God send Jesus down to Earth only so he could preach others to follow some Arab who have not come yet?
This is why it is never a good idea to allow Indonesian Christians into your home (Church). They do not live life according to the Gospel and in many households, Christians and Muslims wll live together. Therefore, it is not surprising this sort of comment comes from an ex-Christian minister.
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Source : https://my.news.yahoo.com/christ ... slim-072950638.html
The “threat” of Christianisation was brought up again today at a forum at a public university where a crowd of about 1,000 was told that Christians will outnumber Muslims in Malaysia by 2100.
‎ ertubuhan Muafakat Sejahtera Masyarakat Malaysia (Muafakat) president Abdul Karim Omar said this was based on the rapid increase of Christians in Malaysia.
He said this is what Malaysia will face if Christianisation is allowed to continue here.
‎"According to our research, the percentage of Christians increases by a huge amount every decade," he said at a seminar on the use of the word Allah and Christology at Universiti Teknologi Mara (UiTM) today.
IF Christianisation is allowed to continue ... that is a scary statement. What do they meant "IF it is allowed"? Do muslims here have intention toward stopping us from practicing our belief system freely? Is Hudud System meant stop the collapse of Islam in Malaysia? |
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And if a hindu convert to Christian, how do you label such act? a betrayal to? |
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IF someone, a Muslim wants to be a Christian, let him be Christian...
IF someone, a Muslim wants to be Hindus, let him be Hindus
IF someone, a Muslim wants to be atheist, let him do that...
IF someone, a Muslim wants to be a good Muslim, thats great...
God will give his guidance to whomever He wishes, it is not us who will guide others, Quran 10:25
At the same time Allah also let anyone to become disbeliever if the person wishes to become disbeliever. Quran 13:27
Every each one of us will be accounted before God by ourselves PERSONALLY in the hereafter, no other people can help us, its all about our own decision made during our life. Quran 99:7-8
Lakum dinukum waliyadin, For you your deen, for me my deen (religion).
We have been given freewill... |
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by Kid
We have been given freewill...
Nonsense. There is no Free will in Islam. IF there is, then there should not be a death penalty for those who leaves Islam for that is their own free will (to do so). |
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Sephiroth posted on 7-5-2014 08:29 AM 
by Kid
Maybe...
But in Qur'an there is no such thing
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convert to islam selalu dengar... convert ke kristian pun ada dengar.. convert ke hindu sejak aku hidup ni tak pernah dengar |
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kid posted on 7-5-2014 08:03 PM
Maybe...
But in Qur'an there is no such thing
FYI - the very concept of throwing people who do not believe in the same thing you believe into hell is proof that there is no free will in Islam.
In Hinduism and Buddhism, Hell exist as place of punishment for wicked deeds done by believers AND non-believers alike. We don't go around preaching those who do not believe in Hinduism and Buddhism will go to hell like Muslims does. But that is what Christians and Muslims does every day, correct? So where is the Free Will then? What is the use of God giving any humans choose to make mistake (and learn from it) only to throw him into hell for all eternity for not believing in some 7th Century Arab? Make sense, kah? 
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Sephiroth posted on 8-5-2014 09:28 AM
FYI - the very concept of throwing people who do not believe in the same thing you believe into he ...
The concept in Islam is different than what you said.
God do not throw people to hell just because they made some mistake in this world.
Before this life, we had previous life, we live twice, we made mistake before and God pardon us due to Him Most Forgiving, but then we demanded to be tested again and this is our second life in this world. It was us human who asked to be sent to this world, our final testing and all is ours.
God has pardon us many times, so do not say God wasn't forgiving.
By the way, embracing Islam not necessary make us a believer. Last edited by kid on 8-5-2014 06:58 PM
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by Kid
The concept in Islam is different than what you said.
Nonsense. You think Islam is so great that non-Muslims cannot understand it? Non-Muslims are smart enough to understand a 7th century belief. We don't have to believe in it (Islam) but that doesn't mean we don't understand it.
IF anything, it is secular Muslims like you who do not understand - or pretend not to understand what Islam is. Have you forgotten that I have asked you whether you (Muslims in general) still required to follow Al-Hadith or not and you went into a long debate (with Zamkumis if not mistaken) about that? Are you ready to answer my question whether Muslims required to follow Al-Hadith or not?
FYI - There are a group within Islamic societies who are known to be "Anti-Hadith" - who claims as you do - that Muslims doesn't require to follow Al-Hadith. In Islamic laws, what are the status of such group?
It is well-known fact that Hell is for non-believers in Islam. Same goes to Christianity who believes Hell is for those who reject Jesus. So, Muslims and Christians busy damning one another without even caring that it is your (Muslims' and Christians') that actually bring the World to state of Hell right now.
Anyway, back to the topic of free will. Three things proves that Islam does not have free will :
1. The requirement to believe and follow Muhammad (as prophet). In Hinduism and Buddhism - one do not need to follow the Avatars or Gautama Buddha's way of life in order to be a good Hindu or Buddhists. One must know the Laws which governs the World and live accordingly. But in Islam, you must accept and follow what Muhammad had done or you cannot be Muslim.
2. Concept of Heaven and Hell for believers and non-believers. In Hinduism and Buddhism, one goes to Heaven or Hell according to their actions, NOT THEIR BELIEF. Matter a fact, we believe that Laws of Karma is Universal and applies to EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING regardless whether you believe or not.
3. That God must "test" humans in order to find out their characteristics. WHY? Is your God so stupid that he must dump a human he created onto the world and test it under strict and abusive belief like Islam and then dump the human to hell for failure to follow Islam? IF you say Yes, then it simply shows that it is your god (Allah) which is a failure here. Failure of Man equals failure of your god since he was the one who created the human in the first place. How can a god create failed human if he is supreme and powerful? |
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@Sephiroth,
It is funny when you are trying to shove down my throat the Imam's hadith dogma to me, when you know I dont view hadith like the general Muslims.
Furthermore, you are not Muslim, the internal debate between me and other Muslim like zamkumis, Ibnur are acceptable, but you are an outsider man 
If you want to debate hadith then go to my other folks who accept them. Last edited by kid on 9-5-2014 12:25 PM
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Susah bercakap dengan orang jahil xbelajar tauhid habis..mls nk lyn..nnt jd bodoh jugak |
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by Kid
It is funny when you are trying to shove down my throat the Imam's hadith dogma to me, when you know I dont view hadith like the general Muslims.
General muslims have a name for a person such as yourself - I think it was called "Munafik" (Pretender).
Even when Muhammad was alive, there were many "munafik" in this group. They showcase themselves as supporters to his cause, give financial and even support him openly, but they had no faith in Islam or in Muhammad. You are such person. Even so you have no faith in Islam, you support it merely for a showcase. 
Furthermore, you are not Muslim, the internal debate between me and other Muslim like zamkumis, Ibnur are acceptable, but you are an outsider man
This is the Internet, Kid. There is NO outsiders here. IF you want a private conversation, invite them to your house or elsewhere and have a discussion with the two of them privately. IF you choose to debate in a public forum, do not complain when the Wolves comes down for the kill.
PS : Islam is everyone's problem. Because end of the day, the three of you (Kid, Zamkumis and Ibnur) will be rubbing this Arabic belief on our (non-Muslims') faces.
If you want to debate hadith then go to my other folks who accept them.
I will take that as an answer that you do not believe in Hadith. Thank you. |
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by Sephiroth
General muslims have a name for a person such as yourself - I think it was called "Munafik" (Pretender).
Even when Muhammad was alive, there were many "munafik" in this group. They showcase themselves as supporters to his cause, give financial and even support him openly, but they had no faith in Islam or in Muhammad. You are such person. Even so you have no faith in Islam, you support it merely for a showcase.
There is an ayat for that, in that ayat definition of munafiqun among sahabah in Qur'an are those who listened to Muhammad during the day and at night time when they get back to their community they said different things from the Qur'an. So it is clear the "Munafik" are those who leave Qur'an after they know it is the truth.
And for my case I follow Qur'an, and you said I dont follow Islam?
This is the Internet, Kid. There is NO outsiders here. IF you want a private conversation, invite them to your house or elsewhere and have a discussion with the two of them privately. IF you choose to debate in a public forum, do not complain when the Wolves comes down for the kill.
PS : Islam is everyone's problem. Because end of the day, the three of you (Kid, Zamkumis and Ibnur) will be rubbing this Arabic belief on our (non-Muslims') faces.
You still have a hard time swallowing the fact that I dont follow Arab traditions, probably I need to tell you few more time until it sips into your brain.
I will take that as an answer that you do not believe in Hadith. Thank you.
You dont exactly know what is 'hadith' means, and what is Islam exactly, furthermore that is internal debate between me and my folks.
So your opinion doesn't have weight. First tell me what is HADITH?
Your are welcome.
Last edited by kid on 10-5-2014 10:49 AM
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by Kid
And for my case I follow Qur'an, and you said I dont follow Islam?
You follow Al Quran but reject Al Hadith. That is like loving the Mother but rejecting the Father.
Muslims believe that Al-Hadith is required to translate the meaning of Al Quran based on what Muhammad had done and said, is it not? If that is true, how can you be a Muslim when you translate Al Quran solely based on your own interpretation (and not Muhammad's)?
You still have a hard time swallowing the fact that I dont follow Arab traditions, probably I need to tell you few more time until it sips into your brain.
And you seems to have hard time accepting FACTS that following Islam IS following Arabic tradition. You are a pretender - Munafik. You believe that you can scrap away the Arabic tradition and culture from Islam by not following Al-Hadith. IF that is true, then why follow Islam at all?
So your opinion doesn't have weight. First tell me what is HADITH?
Al-Hadith is a collection of writing which indicated Muhammad's actions, deeds and words he had spoken. It is used as reference to Al Quran. IF he had said and did (as according to Al Hadith) then it is considered a valid actions to perform by Muslims (as accordance to Al Quran). |
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By Sephiroth
And you seems to have hard time accepting FACTS that following Islam IS following Arabic tradition. You are a pretender - Munafik. You believe that you can scrap away the Arabic tradition and culture from Islam by not following Al-Hadith. IF that is true, then why follow Islam at all?
Even for Muslim who follow hadith, your statement is untrue.
No Muslim would want to follow Arab traditions.
Regarding Hadith it is still internal debate between me and my Muslim folks, it is sufficient to tell you that I'm not following hadith like my friends do. But it doesn't mean each side a pretender or munafikun, it is God decision, not me or you.
And you are outsider who don't have full knowledge, yet you make claim as if you are God?
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Cuai posted on 6-5-2014 05:04 PM
And if a hindu convert to Christian, how do you label such act? a betrayal to?
Yes, such act is betrayal.
Betrayal because :-
1. You change the name given by your parents to some Arabic name (with Bin Abdullah) at the back. You can never perform any rituals for yourself or your family members again under the new religion you have chosen. 1st Betrayal - You betray your family.
2. You reject the belief you were born into and the society which you are born into, to become an Arab - to live like an Arab and to follow a belief which is false according to Hinduism. 2nd Betrayal - You betray your society and religion.
3. You reject God by embracing a god which is not worshipped by your forefathers or foremothers. 3rd Betrayal - You betrayed God.
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by Kid
No Muslim would want to follow Arab traditions.
Wrong. ALL MUSLIMS MUST FOLLOW ARAB TRADITION which is the Al-Hadith. That is FACT.
I'm not following hadith like my friends do ... it is God decision, not me or you.
You are a munafik - a pretender. Therefore, your words and opinions about Islam should not be taken as you yourself do not follow your Islam as it was meant. IF you think only your god can judge you, I suggest you talk to Muslims only for I really do not care to discuss anything with a pretender who pretends s/he knows what s/he talking about. 
And you are outsider who don't have full knowledge, yet you make claim as if you are God?
At least I do not pretend like you. |
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Source : https://my.news.yahoo.com/sudane ... nity-223003154.html
KHARTOUM (Reuters) - A Sudanese court has sentenced a 27-year-old woman to death for converting to Christianity, judicial sources said.
Mariam Yahya Ibrahim had been ordered to abandon her newly adopted Christian faith and return to Islam. She had also been charged with adultery for marrying a Christian man.
Judge Abbas al Khalifa asked Ibrahim whether she would return to Islam. After she said "I am a Christian," the death sentence was handed down, the judicial sources said.
Outside the court, around 50 people held up signs that read "Freedom of Religion", while some Islamists celebrated the ruling, chanting "God is Greatest".
Can Muslims explain how is their god so damn great if Allah cannot even allow a single woman to leave Islam peacefully?
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Post time 6-5-2014 04:19 PM
变色卡
Author
