LOYALTY

hamizao

Someone said it is "the holiest virtue in the human heart". It anchors a marriage and binds a friendship and yet people are saying this is a fast disappearing virtue. Is this so? Why? If truely an ounce of loyalty is worth a pound of cleverness and if " it is better to be faithful than famous" - Theodore Roosevelt, AND if "those who faithfully observe their trust and their covenants will inherit Paradise" - The Quran.....

...are we becoming less divine, less clever, having problems with our commitment , allegiance and devotion to the people and entity that we say we love such that finding  worthy partners and friends may soon become a thing of the past?

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 15-5-2008 11:07 PM ]

seribulan

ketaatan hilang kerana sikap mementingkan diri sendiri semakin berleluasa...

hamizao

Benar sekali, seri. .....

Kesetian seseorang adalah satu petunjuk terhadap dirinya sendiri. Jika seseorang itu setia kepada sesorang yang lain ia akan sentiasa menjaga nama baik orang itu walau apapun yang berlaku. Ia adalah suatu tuntutan moral yang menunjukkan fahaman dan penerimaan seseorang apabila ia menjalinkan ikatan dengan orang lain atau institusi.

They say a loyal person has character. Real loyalty endures inconvenience, withstands temptation and does not cringe under assault.

Di perkatakan juga, hanya mereka yang istimewa dan luar biasa sahaja yang mampu benar-benar setia kerana kesetiaan yang abadi akan diperlihatkan apabila seseorang itu dalam keadaan yang mencabar......Jadi, mungkin ramai manusia yang gagal melepasi cabaran-cabaran itu!

Why? Is it so difficult or is being  "normal" men just an excuse? Afterall normalcy is supposed to be acceptable.

Seri says they have become more  self-centered. Why have they become so?

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 18-5-2008 05:50 PM ]

my-alja

i rasa self-centered tu keperluan utk org survive dlm dunia nie ...cuma makin dewasa sifat tu kena seimbang dgn nilai2 lain dlm hidup...

kalo hami tanya kenapa ianya terjadi....sisitem pendidikan negara nie pun hanya iktiraf kemampuan IQ manusia yg terlalu bersifat individu, semuanya berpaksi pd kelebihan INDIVIDU....

kesetiaan nie pd i sifatnya bersandaran

naden

setia pun biar berpada.. jangan sampai jadi macam LEMBU..
u know.. kena cucuk hidung, ditarik ke sana sini.. ikut je cakap orang..
setia pun kena ada batas.. kena ada pendirian gak.. ada asas & panduan..
yeah, berpada la kan?

tak nafikan positive side drpd setia.. kesan2nya..
tapi kadang2, setia ni la yg menghancurkan sebenarnya..
menghancurkan diri sendiri.. dari dalam..
lebih teruk, kalau kita menghancurkan orang lain gak..
contohnya macam.. setia yg memvavi buta pd seseorang
rasanya setia ni bergerak selari dgn kasih sayang
satu situasi - kerana setia & kasih sayang pd seseorang ni,
kita tak berani tegur bila dia buat salah..
ataupun, kita pertahankan dia bila orang lain kata dia buat salah
kadang tu kita sendiri sedar benda tu salah
tapi setia punya pasal (plus sbb kasih sayang), kita jadi buta & pekak
sanggup membenarkan yg salah & menyalahkan yg benar..
kalau betul kita setia & kalau betul kita sayang pd seseorang (& pd diri),
bila sumthing happened atau orang tu buat salah, kita mesti tegur & betulkan
dgn cara tu la sebenarnya kita setia.. pertahankan relationship
bukan dgn cara berdiam diri & ikut aje segala kata2/perbuatan orang tu!
tu bukan setia.. tu ______ (word with capital B) namanya!

kena ada batas.. segalanya kena ada batas..

hamizao

Thnx for mentioning this aspect...................sekaligus mungkin memberi persetujuan kepada pendapat my-alja tentang sifat persandaran kesetian itu.

Benar sekali kesetiaan perlu ada batas tetapi Hami rasa ia masih tidak mengubah sifat kesetian yang sebenarnya. Ia harus dan perlu dibataskan oleh prinsip-prinsip etika . Macam yanh naden ceritakan itu. Misalan juga seperti  isteri yang didera oleh suami tidak harus terus membiarkannya   atas nama kesetian terhadap suami. Namun, kesetiaan akan tidak lagi menjadi suatu "virtue' apabila kita terpaksa menggadaikan maruah untuk menjaganya. Mungkin sedikit subjektif ni kerana ia terpulang kepada kefahaman  seseorang itu terhadap apa yang akan menjejas maruahmya. Macam mana nak tahu yang itu?

courtney_xo

hanya org yang sanggup berkorban sahaja sanggup setia

hamizao

Originally posted by my-alja at 19-5-2008 12:14 AM
i rasa self-centered tu keperluan utk org survive dlm dunia nie ...cuma makin dewasa sifat tu kena seimbang dgn nilai2 lain dlm hidup...

kalo hami tanya kenapa ianya terjadi....sisitem pendidi ...

Pencapaian individu mustahak buat "feel good about yourself", kehormatan diri sendiri. Tetapi kesetiaan boleh terus di perjuangkan selagi ia tidak menjejaskan kehormatan diri sendiri. Kalau tidak itu kesetiaan buta-tuli (Teringat pula debat tenteng Tuah-Jebat)

William J. Bennet syorkan kesetian perlu ada pengertian terhadap kebenaran dan apa yang betul.

So, anak2 harus dididik dalam nilai2 yang akan memberi kemantapan berfikir apabila diperkasakan dalam serba situasi. Kekadang bebudak ni, bila terasa susah sikit, dah mati kuman...give up,  taruk batu dalam mangkok nasi sendiri atau jadi katak lompat walaupun kerana kelebihan 100-200 ringgit. Dalam setahun berapa kali lompat? La ni majikan pun tahu melihat perkara2 ni ....masaalh kesetiaan.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 21-5-2008 11:21 AM ]

seribulan

I am LOYAL to
those who deserved
to be LOYAL to....

hamizao

Originally posted by seribulan at 21-5-2008 01:37 PM
I am LOYAL to
those who deserved
to be LOYAL to....

Interesting, seri........................who in your analysis should deserve it?

The thing is I am thinking that we don't necessarily give our loyalty to any Tom, Dick or Harry for no apparent reason. It is those whom we have come to be bonded to say, by employment or marriage, family tie or by any means of formal or informal contract.

Oleh courtney:

hanya org yang sanggup berkorban sahaja sanggup setia

Benar kesetian mempunyi elimen pengorbanan......suatu tanggung-jawab yang melampaui obligasi2 yang kita biasa tangani apabila menjaga kepentingan orang lain dalan pertalian suami-isteri, majikan-pekerja, rakyat-negara, bapa-anak....pastinya mewujudkan suatu harapan/ekspektasi taat-setia, allegiance, fidelity dan devotion .

So, courtney, it is a silent expectation.....

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 21-5-2008 03:25 PM ]

seribulan

it is something abstract, actually...can't put a finger to it...
we can only follow a hunch...if we misplace it...we can always
pull it back and give to those most deserving...most sincere...

nazadiyah

KENA YAKIN DENGAN DIRI BARU ADE KEPERCAYAAN UNTUK MEMPERCAYAI KEJUJURAN YE TAK?

hamizao

Originally posted by seribulan at 21-5-2008 04:01 PM
it is something abstract, actually...can't put a finger to it...
we can only follow a hunch...if we misplace it...we can always
pull it back and give to those most deserving...most sincere...

I have been quite unsure how to respond to this, seri. You gave the notion that loyalty is something you may chose to give and then pull back and then give it to someone else.....You follow your hunch in this decision. Do correct me if I am wrong.

So my question would be what kind of hunch/feeling would you consider qualified for loyalty giving?

My thoughts are, once you decide on a bond or relationship with someone, or entity, it goes with a commitment which amongst others would include an understanding/expectation of some degree of loyalty. By an large loyalty becomes the right thing to do and is therefore given willingly. If for some reason you find the bond no longer meaningful, then you may decide to break the bond and hence you become no longer bound to be loyal. That is why they say that the test of loyalty is when yhe bond is under stress. Loyalty therefore goes with the bond. I feel that it is not possible for you to remain bonded to someone and yet not be loyal to that person unless you choose not to be sreadfast in your bond or attachment.

My views lah....

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 5-6-2008 09:47 PM ]

hamizao

Originally posted by nazadiyah at 3-6-2008 04:51 PM
KENA YAKIN DENGAN DIRI BARU ADE KEPERCAYAAN UNTUK MEMPERCAYAI KEJUJURAN YE TAK?

Kejujuran atau kesetian ?

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 5-6-2008 09:52 PM ]

seribulan

sort of you need to test the loyalty that you give out...
cam Sayembara pula kan

hamizao

" Sayembara" tu apa cik seri ?

But still interesting..........Usually ppl would want to test the loyalty received. So what does it mean when you test the loyalty you give to other ppl? Are you really expecting a "return" for the loyalty?

SONofODIN

Loyalty is fast disappearing in the modern society. There are too many evil temptations out there.

redsinner

these statements, i have to agree with u. due to lotsa bad things happened to me, my loyalty is given only to those who deserves it.

i think self-preserverence is the answer for this. defensive and follow hunches and justify the badness in people, then u can get loyalty from someone.  

redsinner

one of the reasons why self-preserverence is the utmost importance to me. independence and enjoyment for me first...hihi

hamizao

Would you still remain in the same relationship as before even when you are no longer loyal to him/her/whatever?